ACTICVE SHOOTER TRAINING COMPLETED

[DaveW]

What, if anything, was included in that training regarding armed good guys that are in the area? What is the most effective way to let you know that I am not the threat? I would really not want to get in the way of or be on the receiving end of a firefight with SWAT while I am just trying to work my way out of the area.

As to being a sheepdog and going back in, without body armor, kevlar, an AR and direct communication with the entry team, not a chance unless my wife is in there. When LEO's come in I think that any visible weapons will be, if not seen as a threat, at the very least be a distraction and how many more people will the active shooter kill while they are sorting that issue out. Also, how would you know the difference between the shooter and an off duty or plain cloths officer, or another good guy? Even if you see "the shooter" shoot someone, how do you know that it was not another good guy shooting who he thought was the bad guy? No, even if we had the proper training there would be too many variables "inside" to think that we would be a net asset without direct communication.

As far as the whole "Sheepdog, Sheep and Wolves" thing goes, I think that there is another category, the Labradors. We are not part of the mindless herd, we think that if the sheep don't make any effort to protect or provide for themselves, it's not our responsibility to do it for them. Don't think that we are not ready, willing and able to fight if the need arises, we are just not looking for one.

[Rumbler]

I am fortunate enough to have a perspective on 'active shooter' most do not as I am deeply involved with both sides; civilian and law enforcement, in the field of training.


Let me start by saying; make no mistake if law enforcement (in such a situation) perceives you as a threat you are going to get shot. Most likely, shot a lot.

That is the result of two factors primarily:

1) Training.
2) The desire to go home intact at the end of their shift.

#1 would be easy to fix, if it were not for #2.


Ok, here is where it gets deep . . . .

I have direct and open lines of communication to no less than four long time SWAT leaders/trainers. They trust me enough to speak freely with me about just the topics you mention.

At least one of them said to me recently: "Mike, if I had a dime for every time I have been shot (in training) by a cop while holding my badge up saying "I AM A COP!!!" I could retire today." He went on to say that the badge on the belt was no better. The badge dangling around the neck was no better. I am not sure this would be better than holding up a badge hollering "I AM A COP!!!!"

We were talking about the potential for this to help.:

http://www.policestore.com/duty-gear...prod42039.aspx


These are available (Talon has them in stock) with "POLICE", "SECURITY", and "CWL" on them. . . . yes, we make you show LEO ID to buy the "POLICE" version.


A couple of years ago, at FSU, Major Russell held a "safety seminar" for faculty and staff. I specifically asked him what would happen if I ended the active shooter and his guys (FSU PD) showed up while I was still obviously armed. His answer was short and sweet: "Probably shoot you". Notice I did not say "had my gun out" I said "armed".


So I figure when it all boils down to its essence I have two choices:

1) Live defenseless until someone else decides it is time for me to die.
2) Be prepared to defend myself - or someone else - and accept personal responsibility for my decisions.

For better or worse, #2 is my choice.

I can't say that is the right choice for everyone, or even anyone. But it is mine.


Woof, woof.

What, if anything, was included in that training regarding armed good guys that are in the area? What is the most effective way to let you know that I am not the threat? I would really not want to get in the way of or be on the receiving end of a firefight with SWAT while I am just trying to work my way out of the area.

As to being a sheepdog and going back in, without body armor, kevlar, an AR and direct communication with the entry team, not a chance unless my wife is in there. When LEO's come in I think that any visible weapons will be, if not seen as a threat, at the very least be a distraction and how many more people will the active shooter kill while they are sorting that issue out. Also, how would you know the difference between the shooter and an off duty or plain cloths officer, or another good guy? Even if you see "the shooter" shoot someone, how do you know that it was not another good guy shooting who he thought was the bad guy? No, even if we had the proper training there would be too many variables "inside" to think that we would be a net asset without direct communication.

As far as the whole "Sheepdog, Sheep and Wolves" thing goes, I think that there is another category, the Labradors. We are not part of the mindless herd, we think that if the sheep don't make any effort to protect or provide for themselves, it's not our responsibility to do it for them. Don't think that we are not ready, willing and able to fight if the need arises, we are just not looking for one.