What do you crimp with? I use Lee's Factory Crimp Die and I've not noticed an issue.Originally Posted by SB
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What do you crimp with? I use Lee's Factory Crimp Die and I've not noticed an issue.
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.
Rcbs die with taper crimp. Have used the FCD before and didn't care for it. Mostly personal preference. Seemed to squish lead bullets too much.
This is mostly in 45 though.
Putting the Harm in Pharmacist
1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.In many ways the difference between the highest blue Dillon down through the green and orange and any other colors to the lowest Lee red, is all about time, and PURPOSE.
The complex and expensive models are good for making lots and lots of rounds identical in most or all respects, very fast... I would call that "bulk" hand loading.
The models in between have niches for lesser production with more changes between one session and the next, changes in caliber or changes in bullet weight or powder amount, crimp, or other details... They are less speedy and generally more adept at producing greater variety at a slower pace. When you get down to the simplest presses you may have either the slowest and cheapest way to make lots of identical rounds, or one of the easiest ways of making just a few rounds of something or another of all kinds... OR a way to make ammo that just CANNOT be made on the speedy, more complicated presses. Try loading a .577/.45 Martini Henry, a 12.7x44R (roughly .51 caliber) Swedish Rolling Block, or even a more common .45-70 Government cartridge on yer fancy-schmancey rocket reloader. Another specialty item is .50 BMG, because of its extreme OAL (OVERALL LENGTH)! More likely than not your typical progressive press of ANY price will absolutely REFUSE to even accept the dies for such calibers, because they are far larger than the 5/8" so-called "standard" die size. There is in fact, more than one "standard". It works the other way, too. What good is a progressive press for reloading .25 ACP? (Don't bother asking "what kind of idiot?"... that sort of question just won't get you anywhere you want to go, at all.) The "one size loads all" hand primers don't even work with either the extremely small or extremely large cases... and I prefer to prime that way because I can FEEL the primer being properly seated. Ever see a primer smashed to oblivion sideways across a primer pocket? If you haven't, you haven't been looking... that USELESS load was most likely run through a progressive press... and I've even seen that situation in "factory" ammo. I load a plethora of calibers, usually not so many rounds of the same kind at the same time... and they can vary from .25 to .577 in case head diameter. If you do have a progressive, and you ever want to load some of the less-usual large calibers, you will probably have to drop down to a simple D press. An even less expensive C press is handier for tiny or middle sized calibers though a non-progressive turrent press will also handle most of those calibers faster. Lee has an extremely inexpensive hand press that needs no bench to mount a press on. It also puts a lot of stress on the user's hand so I wouldn't recommend it for any but very low production purposes... but it is a good option to take to a range with components and other necessary light equipment and adjust charges in real time, loading a few test loads at a time, at some shady place off of the firing line. I have a Lee C press that is mounted to one of those Frankford Arsenal portable plastic reloading stands that I have taken to the range for that sort of purpose. It's bulkier, but plenty light and portable, extremely inexpensive, and doesn't strain the hand.
Hand loading presses are NOT either/or, are NOT "one size fits all", and NO press no matter how expensive fullfills every possible purpose. If you do all kinds of things with them you will need all kinds of presses and other gadgets too. If you never do anything but the boring and predictable task of putting the same charge and the same bullet in the same COMMON caliber of cartridge, for only a few calibers... that's Dillon Territory. I live mostly in RCBS Territory with some Lee add-ons, but I've recently found that sometimes the "cheap" Lee stuff works better and faster on turret jobs than with a RCBS turret... not to mention that the Lee turret heads have a better number of available die mounting holes, are lighter and more easily storable with the dies attached, and cost cents on the dollar to what RCBS turret heads cost.
It is only possible to get "ideological" about brands or even types of presses for hand loading, if the ideologue has a VERY NARROW mental frame of reference.
"Living life in fear isn't living life at all." ~ Winter Soldier
I keep an RCBS single stage around for when I want to turn out the lights and pretend I'm in the 1800's too! Great fun.
In all seriousness, though, every machine has its limitations. No, you're not going to reload every caliber on the planet on a progressive machine, but that's not my purpose in reloading, nor is it for most people around here. I never give advice on really anything until I know the why/how of their question, so my brand loyalty will always stay inside the parameters of the person asking.
As far as the sideways primers, I see that in my press maybe once in 20,000 rounds. It's always been caused by a crimped primer pocket rather than a failure of the machine to align them right, but I have (if I do say so myself) excellent technique and pace on the reloading press.
I wouldn't consider brand loyalty to be VERY NARROW in thinking because Dillon doesn't build machines to reload obscure cartridges, though. Different machines for different needs.
(GO BLUE!!)
I just this week took my .40 Lee FCD out as an experiment. I was also running a Lee undersized sizing die, but since my brass source started shooting 4th Gen Glocks I haven't needed to, so I went back to the standard Dillon sizing die. My issue with some ammo accuracy (I think) is the cases I'm getting might be on the thick side and the FCD is undersizing the bullet, making them pattern rather than group at any kind of distance.
I never had the issue with properly jacketed bullets, though. Only plated, lead, and coated ones.
I'll keep happily churning out ammo on my Lee Loadmaster. Under $200 bucks, and once you learn from other users ( http://loadmastervideos.com/ ) and throw Lee's manual away its pretty dead nuts reliable.
I get 90% of the speed (from what others tell me) of more expensive brands, with perhaps 5% more hassle.
The load master works for me because I am willing to work around it quirks, and for my volume it was more than affordable.
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.
I certainly go along with the 'some presses are suited to some jobs'.
For high volume production of "straight" wall pistol cartridges there are two 650XL's on the bench.
For medium volume pistol and smaller rifle cartridges there is a 550B on the bench.
For large pistol (think 460 S&W neighborhood) and precision or large rifle cartridges there are two single stage rock crushers on the bench. . . and I'd like to have a third one.
Thus far the only "quirk" I have found is all their tendency to crush or pinch the crap out of a finger if left between the shell plate and the bottom of the die plate.
I'd rather be lucky than good, but I'd rather KNOW I'm good than HOPE to get lucky.
*ahem*I certainly go along with the 'some presses are suited to some jobs'.
For high volume production of "straight" wall pistol cartridges there are two 650XL's on the bench.
For medium volume pistol and smaller rifle cartridges there is a 550B on the bench.
For large pistol (think 460 S&W neighborhood) and precision or large rifle cartridges there are two single stage rock crushers on the bench. . . and I'd like to have a third one.
Thus far the only "quirk" I have found is all their tendency to crush or pinch the crap out of a finger if left between the shell plate and the bottom of the die plate.
Not COMPLETELY accurate there buddy. ;-)
*for clarification, I've seen Rumbler deal with a few "quirks" on a 650. To be fair, there was a team of untrained monkeys making their best effort to make his life difficult... I just like poking the bear.
Rumbler,I have a rock chucker that I have been using for over 40yrs can't kill it.
(nam era) yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for I am the meanest SOB in the valley!
I'm right behind you. I still use one as I simply don't shoot enough pistol reloads to need a progressive nor do I shoot enough .223 reloads. I have an ammo advantage and when that ends, perhaps I'll need a progressive... I'd love to have one of those bigger/faster machines.
Signal-0 Productions Firearms Training... for the working man.
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