worthwhile or a waste of time practices.

[mapper]

The further I get down the reloading rabbithole, the unanswered questions and diffrent opinions on procedures used ( especially the why behind it) seems confusing.
I have gone from plinking loads to trying to make match ammo. So it has progressed beyond basic loading.

And in each of the cases below, I have seen differing viewpoints, and it is getting harder to separate the worthwhile practices from the voodoo..

This is all in relation to rifle cases, and the intent is to produce match ammo for shooting groups for score,

So with that said, I would like to know what is important and gives the most benefit, and what does not, with the following assumptions:

All brass is same headstamp, same amount of firings,

When to consider annealing necks (on which firing)

Primer pocket uniforming: worthwhile or not

Flash hole deburring: worthwhile or waste of time

Turning or reaming necks: worthwhle or not

Using bushing dies with out an expander ball,
Or collet dies, or standard dies that are honed out in the neck
Worthwhile or not

Using premium brass like lapua or norma or equalavent

Checking and correcting runout

I know some go to more than this such as weighing cases, bullets and sorting them,
Measuring length with bullet comparators, and sorting

But I'm not ready to go do any of the above except for premium brass, (because I have it) if it does not make any REAL diffrence.

So, for the folks here that have either tried this before, or do it and notice a improvement, I would like their opinions.
I'm asking because I would honestly like to know how to make the best ammo I can for the time involved.
Thanks. I haven't seen this in the reloading 101 books I have, but have seen it on a sierra video of David Tubb loading ammo..
(I'm no David Tubb)

[Rumbler]

Mapper, I try to make my first and heavies measure: "Will doing ________ improve consistency and can I do (what is needed) consistently from cartridge to cartridge?".

As an example, I went from reaming out crimps to swaging them because I noticed that it was pretty darned easy to ream the pockets inconsistently. Besides the Dillon Superswage 600 is about . . .600 times, faster.

[mapper]

I ended up with case prep center and rcbs military crimp remover, as it is quick, easy, consistient, and does not overcut.
Besides I needed something other than a lee handheld chamfer and debur tool..
Thanks for the reply, the dillon is a nice tool for the job.

[Jafar]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not a reloader, but I have studied it intensely and watched like a hawk people who are excellent at doing it. But consistency will always equal accuracy.

As far as runout, I have a buddy of mine who hunts worldwide and allowed a fellow to load big game rounds for him. He went to Montana and it took 6 rounds to kill an elk 500 yards out. This guy doesn't miss. The guide almost kicked his ass all the way down the mountain and my buddy was pissed and humiliated. There was runout in the loads and it led to the round gouging the lead rifling just outside the throat and ruining the barrel on the $5000 rifle, just from firing a handful of shots.

[mapper]

J man,
This is why I'm asking..,thanks for the reply
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...+runout&page=2

[Jafar]

J man,
This is why I'm asking..,thanks for the reply
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...+runout&page=2

When he came back he called me over for a beer and told me what happened. Of course I asked him what was different this time and asked to to see the ammo. I took two complete cartridges and rolled them across the flat surface of a deep freezer in his garage. Looked like a wobbly tire on a jalopy.

I know there's a lot of good info on here, but there are also some great videos by TRex and 8541 (ref. "Mail Call") on the YouTube on a lot of these subjects.

[mapper]

J man,
This is the Sierra video with David Tubb I was eluding to...
Around 1:10 it goes into neck turning, and the benefits of less distortion to
The case necks when the expander comes out of the case.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NUnrYp0NH38&feature=youtu.be

[FLT]

<<<<< is not a expert. I start with new or once fired cases from the same lot I size them trim them to lenth de burr the flash hole I then weight them and separate them into lots by weight. I then load them and number each one with a permanent marker. I then shoot them in five shot groups any that shoot out of the group is set a side and has a letter added to the number on the second reload any that shoot out of the group a second time are discarded. I'm only about a minute of angle shooter but can pretty much do it on demand under most conditions. I only shoot 300 or so yards a 400 yard shot is really pushing it for me. There are some experts on this forum that will not shoot at that short of range I'm sure their case prep is more involved.

[Airgator0470]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not a reloader, but I have studied it intensely and watched like a hawk people who are excellent at doing it. But consistency will always equal accuracy.

As far as runout, I have a buddy of mine who hunts worldwide and allowed a fellow to load big game rounds for him. He went to Montana and it took 6 rounds to kill an elk 500 yards out. This guy doesn't miss. The guide almost kicked his ass all the way down the mountain and my buddy was pissed and humiliated. There was runout in the loads and it led to the round gouging the lead rifling just outside the throat and ruining the barrel on the $5000 rifle, just from firing a handful of shots.

How does MUCH SOFTER copper and/or lead damage EXTREMELY HARD ORDNANCE GRADE STEEL? Something sounds odd here... people shoot heavily damaged pulls all the time... they suck past 100 yards accuracy wise but they don't damage anything.

Bullets self-center as the enter they rifling so it's no big deal (run out) except in the accuracy department. I'd like more info on barrel type, bullet type, and just how much run out we are talking about. For a bullet to have severe enough run out it can be detected easily by eye... he should have had his ass kicked down the mountain for not checking his ammo knowing a long shot was in the mix.

Mapper... many of the things you have listed there MAY help... but to a discernible degree, who knows... only way to tell is your own testing. We discussed this in the reloading class... for me some of the tasks did not result in marked improvement so for the time cost/benefit, I found it not worth the effort.

[Airgator0470]

The further I get down the reloading rabbithole, the unanswered questions and diffrent opinions on procedures used ( especially the why behind it) seems confusing.
I have gone from plinking loads to trying to make match ammo. So it has progressed beyond basic loading.

And in each of the cases below, I have seen differing viewpoints, and it is getting harder to separate the worthwhile practices from the voodoo..

This is all in relation to rifle cases, and the intent is to produce match ammo for shooting groups for score,

So with that said, I would like to know what is important and gives the most benefit, and what does not, with the following assumptions:

All brass is same headstamp, same amount of firings,

Leads to consistency... falls into the "can only help" category

When to consider annealing necks (on which firing)

When you see split necks or a lack of a case holding neck tension

Primer pocket uniforming: worthwhile or not

Personally never found it to benefit

Flash hole deburring: worthwhile or waste of time

Personally never found it to benefit

Turning or reaming necks: worthwhle or not

Never needed to

Using bushing dies with out an expander ball,
Or collet dies, or standard dies that are honed out in the neck
Worthwhile or not

Never used any hi-speed dies... the bullet-centering sleeve like on the Hornady dies help to reduce run out

Using premium brass like lapua or norma or equalavent

Never used it... shoot plenty of fantastic groups w/o it

Checking and correcting runout

Probably the single most beneficial thing to do

I know some go to more than this such as weighing cases, bullets and sorting them,
Measuring length with bullet comparators, and sorting

But I'm not ready to go do any of the above except for premium brass, (because I have it) if it does not make any REAL diffrence.

So, for the folks here that have either tried this before, or do it and notice a improvement, I would like their opinions.
I'm asking because I would honestly like to know how to make the best ammo I can for the time involved.
Thanks. I haven't seen this in the reloading 101 books I have, but have seen it on a sierra video of David Tubb loading ammo..
(I'm no David Tubb)

Thoughts...