ACTICVE SHOOTER TRAINING COMPLETED

[BlueBronco]

No David, I am not going to dig out the information again. I know what it says.

I quoted three bleeding heart liberal sources that say AT WORST the number I quoted is SLIGHTLY high.


You believe what you want to believe. I believe that when my ass is on the line I am paying extra special attention to what *I KNOW* poses the greatest potential for my untimely demise. If that makes me a racist, if that makes me a bigot, if that makes me a shit eating ass hole, I really couldn't care less. I WILL win the fight by being the most aggressive with the least hesitation.

If that philosophy don't work for you, I am OK with that. It makes me feel bad because I like you and your wife a lot, but I respect your right to make your own decision(s).

I generally use the FBI UCR and FDLE statistics for various crime data as well as murders by weapon type because they go back for quite a ways. The problem with places like Huff Po is they get data from irregular sources and they tend to push Social Justice and they want said numbers to look out of alignment. At the end of the day, those are descriptive statistics and not inferential or predictive.

Deputy Pine was murdered by an Asian Decent looking guy although is g.f. (Pugh) is black. Deputy German was murdered by an 18 y.o. white kid looking punk accompanied by a 17 y.o. white girl. It is unclear if the 17 yo girl was an accomplice or just murdered. Pugh was part of the robbing and stealing and hope the charge her with murder 1 with special circumstances.

[cceveland]

I generally use the FBI UCR and FDLE statistics for various crime data as well as murders by weapon type...

I'm sure you know this, but murder is the ONLY crime remotely close to being accurately reported on the UCR, and FDLE statistics are simply the Florida UCR stats aren't they? I want nothing to do with the debate, I simply don't want anybody to think that any of the statistics cited here (and I mean everyone) are to be taken seriously.

[Johnny]

I agree with your last post whole heartly RUMBLER!

[DaveW]

I firmly understand and respect both sides of this conversation. I don't need anymore help losing sleep and knowing innocents fell on my watch, but I also disdain the milktose loafer wearing panty waists that spent their time playing golf and fantasy football rather than being at the range and being capable of protecting them and theirs.

That being said, I think I offer a compromise; I carry a weapon, and or the means to protect myself, everywhere I go.

That includes gun free zones. Every place I see a sign that says "no firearms" I walk right by it as if I never saw it. Is it breaking the law? You betcha. Do I give a fuck? Absolutely not.

In this manner I can protect myself by immediately removing the threat and evacuating with the innocents at the same time. "But that's buh-buh-breaking the law," you say. So is going to your vehicle, getting a gun, and going back in. Back at square one, minus the loss of operational tempo.

I am not committing suicide for anyone by going back in and being gunned down the responding police. Love you guys, mean it, but we know exactly what the fuck will happen when your dicks get hard and the MP5's come out of the cases.

Thats my compromise and the boundaries of my participation. I'm no hero, but I'm no coward either.

Quintessential Labrador. Not a sheepdog, definitely not a wolf or a sheep, and ready for the fight if it comes your way. If not a sheepdog, I consider it every mans duty to at least train and aspire to be the Lab.

[Airgator0470]

I am not committing suicide for anyone by going back in and being gunned down the responding police. Love you guys, mean it, but we know exactly what the fuck will happen when your dicks get hard and the MP5's come out of the cases.

MP5's.....? That's so 1980's... lol

[crawdaddy34]

and no one wants to shoot a naked guy.

That depends on why he's naked brother....

Remember the thread about the kid in the daughters bed???

[DaveW]

If I were to call dispatch and let them know what I was about to do, I would tell them I was going to be naked and then strip down and run in. There might be two guys in there with red shirts on, but an exponentially higher chance that I'm the only nude gunman inside.

and no one wants to shoot a naked guy.

Sorry but I had to click the disapprove button, only because that was an image that I did not need in my head. I hope I'm not scarred for life.

[DaveW]

1911+beard+tea bag = dead bad guy

Redemption is yours Sir.

[Evil_McNasty]

If I were to call dispatch and let them know what I was about to do, I would tell them I was going to be naked and then strip down and run in. There might be two guys in there with red shirts on, but an exponentially higher chance that I'm the only nude gunman inside.

and no one wants to shoot a naked guy.

Gurkha style. That might actually work.

[BlueBronco]

Another point that I'd like to bring up here is the legality for civilians. I know the LEO's here said they would initially go in, or go out and come back in.

But you're allowed by law to do that, whereas the law does not favor us. If I decided to go in and intervene, I would theoretically be acting under law by using a weapon to stop a forcible felony from occurring to another individual. But would that hold up in court?

What if the only shot I could take ended up with the round going through the aggressor and striking an innocent hiding in a closet behind them. Am I now liable to face criminal and/or civil pursuit?

What if I came across another armed citizen who was trying to intervene, saw his weapon pointed at me or another, and I engaged him? Would that not be manslaughter?

I fully agree that I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6, and not see innocents killed, but my faith in humanity is not what it used to be. Will the court of public opinion leave me with my ass in the wind and facing criminal charges? God forbid that the perpetrator is black or a minority. Will I then have Jesse and Al lead a crusade against me and the perpetrators family sue me? These are all very likely events.

I know we all want to be John Wayne's and we want to have our honor and walk a hard line. But what happens when there isn't anyone left who deserves our honor?

I like to pick battles that I can win, and I just can't see that being the case with this scenario.

The hairy part is for "Gun Free Zones" and they are all somewhat different. For example, a k-12 is the most problematic. But on a Florida University, with a ccw license, the possession of a pistol is a misdemeanor. However, that would require me to exit retrieve and re-enter the building. That can also be problematic. It means I have either left students etc. behind, or I have already brought them out when I exited.