Balls of Brass

Someone certainly has them.


Between last Sunday evening and Monday afternoon some incredibly profoundly brave - and stupid - people or person helped himself or herself to ALL of the spent brass on the Talon temporary range.


I mean, aside from steel case and rimfire, [size=1em]they functionally sanitized it[/size]. Monday afternoon it took six motivated people to gather about 150 centerfire cases.


You get that? They left the steel case and rimfire. The thief or thieves were in no hurry.


In conference with the owners it was decided that this was completely unacceptable behavior. It will not be tolerated, in fact.


So, I am writing this message with two distinct goals:


1) To ask that should you encounter anyone seeking to sell a massive amount (several thousand) brass cartridge cases you PLEASE contact myself or any other Talon Training personnel . . quickly.


2) To give you a heads up that none of the Talon folks think much of thieves and to suggest that the Talon facility be given a wide berth when closed (this would be a really good place to read between the lines ;) ).

Wow. That sucks. If you need some brass to replace them I have several thousand rounds I came into a couple of days ago. Completely unrelated. ;)

Geez, that does take a pair. Time for the trail cameras... and the cl@ym0res.

Honest question...

If I shoot on one of the short "pistol" bays and pick up my brass, I assume that is ok...what about other brass I find laying around that was left by others before me? Is that off limits?

At what point does spent brass become property of Talon (or any range) such that picking it up is theft?

I bet that some of the brass this dude took from the temporary range was left by me - could I say he "stole" my brass or did it become Talon's property when I left it?

Also, in the future at the Talon range, are we encouraged to police the ranges for our spent brass when we're done?

It's explained in their safety/introduction class. You can pick up YOUR brass BUT BRASS LEFT BEFORE YOU ARRIVED BELONGS TO TALO.

[quote author=YankeeFingergasm link=topic=1059.msg10700#msg10700 date=1372469280]
It's explained in their safety/introduction class. You can pick up YOUR brass BUT BRASS LEFT BEFORE YOU ARRIVED BELONGS TO TALON.
[/quote]


Bingo. Gold star for you - for sure. Thank you.


A little background so you folks do not get the wrong impression . . just in case . . . I reload ALL the ammunition used in Talon classes ammo is provided for.


As an example, I loaded 1400 rounds of 9MM after I got off work today. That will cover the instructional portion of the basic class running tomorrow morning. Only. :o


If you have been through a Talon basic class, you know that after the class about 35 or 40 handguns of various calibers (from .22 to .45ACP) are laid out, and ammo cans with ammo in each caliber are opened up. This is to give the new folks an opportunity they don't get in a gun shop to try any gun they think they *might* like in real life. Ammo for that is provided, there is no limit on how many rounds you can fire - only time. When the instructor says it is time to pack up; it is time to pack up.


Anyway, I load all that ammo too.


So . . . me loading 2500-3000 rounds of various pistol calibers PER WEEK is probably very realistic. As I do NOT load mouse farts, I load defensive ammo, given that; the brass only has a short lifespan. Every time I get a batch of brass off of the range probably 20-25% of it goes in the garbage because it is split or otherwise screwed up (I toss any brass that feels funny (too loose) when I seat the primer, for example).


So . . . chances are way above average at some point I will reload every reloadable case left on the range. Talon does not sell/scrap ANY brass. It either goes back in an ammo can to be shot again, or it goes in the dumpster to be hauled off by the garbologist.

Can you not sell the unusable brass to a smelter?

[quote author=Jonas link=topic=1059.msg10722#msg10722 date=1372476437]
Can you not sell the unusable brass to a smelter?
[/quote]


The (old) primers make it hazardous waste. MODERN primers are no longer mercuric, but because there is no practical way to tell old from new in large(r) quantities the metal buyers go for the lowest common denominator. Thus it would require decapping all the old brass.




. . . that is not to say there is not someone somewhere that would buy it, but as Talon's owners are LEOs . . . . . . ::)

[quote author=YankeeFingergasm link=topic=1059.msg10700#msg10700 date=1372469280]
It's explained in their safety/introduction class. You can pick up YOUR brass BUT BRASS LEFT BEFORE YOU ARRIVED BELONGS TO TALON.
[/quote]

That makes sense. Hoping to make it to my safety course tomorrow. Thanks!

[quote author=Rumbler link=topic=1059.msg10721#msg10721 date=1372475786]
Talon does not sell/scrap ANY brass. It either goes back in an ammo can to be shot again, or it goes in the dumpster to be hauled off by the garbologist.
[/quote]

That's pretty silly and a waste of resources.

A little bit of brass isn't worth much but as time goes by and more and more piles up, it becomes well worth a trip to recycle.

[quote author=Quaid link=topic=1059.msg11128#msg11128 date=1372666926]
[quote author=Rumbler link=topic=1059.msg10721#msg10721 date=1372475786]
Talon does not sell/scrap ANY brass. It either goes back in an ammo can to be shot again, or it goes in the dumpster to be hauled off by the garbologist.
[/quote]

That's pretty silly and a waste of resources.

A little bit of brass isn't worth much but as time goes by and more and more piles up, it becomes well worth a trip to recycle.
[/quote]


Want a job decapping? Pays by the pound . . . . :)

[quote author=Rumbler link=topic=1059.msg11131#msg11131 date=1372675291]
[quote author=Quaid link=topic=1059.msg11128#msg11128 date=1372666926]
[quote author=Rumbler link=topic=1059.msg10721#msg10721 date=1372475786]
Talon does not sell/scrap ANY brass. It either goes back in an ammo can to be shot again, or it goes in the dumpster to be hauled off by the garbologist.
[/quote]

That's pretty silly and a waste of resources.

A little bit of brass isn't worth much but as time goes by and more and more piles up, it becomes well worth a trip to recycle.
[/quote]


Want a job decapping? Pays by the pound . . . . :)
[/quote]

Since you mention decapping... yeah, I recycle spent primers from decapping too. You would be amazed at how much a gallon jug of spent primers WEIGHS... and weight = $.

As far as decapping for you/Talon... The only things that hold me back are: (1) wondering if you are serious, and (2) wondering about transportation logistics (burning more fuel than the brass is worth is senseless), and (3) wondering if I could handle that kind of volume in a timely manner. There is also the minor matter that the more haste involved the more likelihood of breaking decapper pins... and decapper pins cost $. It wasn't my proudest moment, but once I broke 3 decapper pins in an hour or less. One of the culprits is Privi Partisan .223 brass and I've gotten to where I segregate it and handle it with special care. It has super-soft primers that stretch so much they are difficult to press out before the pressure exceeds the tension that holds the decapping pin in the die... then it all goes south from there. Something insufficiently satisfying about knowing that brute force and slamming the press handle around not being a good idea doesn't always convince me that I shouldn't do it!

5.56 brass had to be invented by Bill Gates / the devil (I'm not at all convinced they are not one and the same).


I get cramps in my hands just thinking about processing that . . .stuff, for reloading. Which make the realization we have 50,000 empty 5.56 cases of we have 5, all the more annoying.


Oh, wait, recycle spent primers ?!?! THAT is what contains the stuff the recyclers say constitutes calling NON decapped brass hazardous waste. What the heck is up with that? :o

Sounds like the recyclers you deal with are taking every opportunity to fuck you over Mike.

[quote author=mattb link=topic=1059.msg12363#msg12363 date=1373165019]
Sounds like the recyclers you deal with are taking every opportunity to fuck you over Mike.
[/quote]


I'm certainly beginning to think the same thing . . . . >:(

[quote author=Rumbler link=topic=1059.msg11341#msg11341 date=1372735353]
Oh, wait, recycle spent primers ?!?! THAT is what contains the stuff the recyclers say constitutes calling NON decapped brass hazardous waste. What the heck is up with that? :o
[/quote]

Haven't run across that... but I haven't recycled any in awhile. My normal cycle is about once every three years, but I was on the sick lame and lazy list for a year and a half and I'm way behind on everything involving brass. I've heard that some recyclers won't take .22 brass because of the number of live rounds in it, so I segregate the .22 brass but so far all they have ever done at Leon is mix them with the rest... and the de-primed primers, too. But they aren't going to find any live rounds in what I recycle. I recycle the lead myself, and 39-41 gr. of lead is 39-41 gr. of lead!!!