Anyone here using one? Can you tell if you get better results than with a normal loading press?
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Anyone here using one? Can you tell if you get better results than with a normal loading press?
I've never seen it done first hand. I'm guessing you're talking about the pneumatic ones?
Like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpOHBHmcHlA
I do not see how an arbor press would work without alot of presidential ingenuity....
Best comment;Quote:
Originally Posted by AB
"This is where that crap ammo from Walmart comes from"
You can use an arbor press in conjunction with a spring loaded bullet seat, just like what Bodo posted. I've been watching a lot of old videos of Darrel Holland loading precision match ammo with one.
I learned a little something....
That's why we're here, brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by 12bhunting
Alright, well I'm guessing no one here uses one. I'm gonna work on setting one up if anyone is curious to seeing if there's any noticeable performance increase.
I read some of the links posted before I got bored. Is it improved feel that is what allows you to see an increase in precision?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar
How would you increase precision? you set your dies up with a caliper to what you want correct? the only way I can see to increase precision is to have your dies set up to sit on the ogive of that particular bullet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Gribble
What I read was the ability to feel differences in neck tension, that kind of 'feel'. Not something I'm worried about.Quote:
Originally Posted by 12bhunting
I'm sort'a the opposite of a benchrest shooter. My philosophy runs along the lines of, "Any bullet that goes downrange instead of somewhere else is an accurate bullet," though if hard pressed on the subject I will grudgingly admit that those bullets that actually hit a target are better than those that don't. Perzakly where on the target a bullet hits is pretty much a matter of unconcern to me.
But then... I learned to shoot with a slingshot I carved out of a board, with "bands" cut from an inner tube and a pouch cut out of the tongue from an old leather shoe, and I fed it anything that would fit... all too often to my present shame, screws and nuts from my dad's machine shop. A machine screw with a couple of nuts threaded onto it will do a job on a bird.
Eenyhoo... That's a neck-size-only setup and I'm sure my rifle brass would get some longevity from using it... except that I seldom fire the same rifle twice in a row, and neck-sizing only ain't a good way to go for that.
I hit the mother load when I was a kid. Found a box in the barn with thousands of 3/8 nuts. Yep I had a fine time killing shit, until the tail light of a 76 Chevy got in between me an a squirrel. I had no idea a man could throw a homemade slingshot 300+ yards while cussing a youngster....
Here's a couple of other things that will help reduce your group size.Attachment 6193Attachment 6194
Attachment 6195And of course a little pussy always helps
FLT, is that the Tuskegee Golden Tiger mascot?
Back to subject: One of the things that help me with grouping back when I was doing a lot of reloading, was to shoot the same brass in the same gun (bolt guns) and don't do full length sizing, just neck sizing.
We have something in common. A little pussy helps me as well....
C/H , no he's only 8 months old . He weighs 27 pounds already! My wife called me from Atlanta and said she was bringing a new pussy home. I said great how long before you'll be home. Imagine my surprise , not at all what I had in mind.
The main thing precision reloading does for me , is to eliminate the flyers. I'm about a minute of angle shooter out to 300 yards. That means I won't see a big reduction in group size but that unexplained flyer that opens the group up or misses the target doesn't happen nearly as often. You guys that can shoot under an inch at 200 yards will see a marked improvement in group size. It would be well worth your time to give it a try.
So how far down the rabbit hole do you go, all the way to the David Tubb suite?
Meaning on each loaded round do you check on the neco guage, mark the high point on the case, and index it at the same point in the chamber prior to firing it.
See about the 29 minute mark in this
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NUnrYp0NH38
Or do you park next door in the Richard Lee gravel lot, and do each thing consistiently?
I have often wondered what diffrences it would make, but haven't bought guages to be able to tell me any errors, or changes in procedures or equipment to reduce them. So I park in the gravel lot and make ammo as consistient as I can.
I don't think I am a good enough shooter to notice. Nor do I think my guns and optics are (at this point) shooting far enough to notice. But I am sure it does matter for those who have gotten all of the shit truly together.
FTFYQuote:
Originally Posted by Dale Gribble
That's most of my problem these days. My contacts have me at 20/20, but through a scope, it's not as crisp as it used to be. My optician has explained it all, but I willn't go into all that.
[QUOTE=mapper;174344]So how far down the rabbit hole do you go, all the way to the David Tubb suite?
I got pretty deep . I have good equipment and in my opinion some first rate rifles. That's what let's me know I'm a minute of angle shooter.I have a friend that's capable of shooting 3/8 inch groups with the same rifle and ammo. One thing that I do is mark any case that is a flyer then when I load it again I'm extra careful with it . If it's out of the group on the next firing I throw it away. I don't waste any time trying to figure out what's wrong with it. That step along will tighten up your groups measurable .
I have often wondered what diffrences it would make, but haven't bought guages to be able to tell me any errors, or changes in procedures or equipment to reduce them. So I park in the gravel lot and make ammo as consistient as I can. That's pretty much the way I started and no better than I can shoot it would have been all I ever needed.
I was watching a Darrel Holland course where he was using an Arbor press in conjunction with a barrel block that was made with the exact same reamer and dimensions of his rifle's chamber. He could use the arbor press to seat his bullet and then check against the barrel block, trying to get the bullet set in the same place every time (just touching the lands).
Once he had the bullet seat adjusted, he could fly through the loads and be at exactly the same set depth every time while reducing run out that could occur on a normal press bullet seat die. This would allow him to refrain from having to use a concentricity roller to provide the same bullet position every time. In his explanation; same bullet depth and no run out equals amazing consistency and precision.
He also uses a brass mill to turn his necks as well. Now I'm sure these are above and beyond techniques for a lot of people, but if we're going through the trouble of building rifles and hand loading ammo, why not? I'm at least down to experiment with it to see what happens. If nothing else, I'm just learning one more thing about the way my rifles shoot.
I also trim meplats if that tells you anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar
I didn't know you were French.
I trim me plats too. Some times they just get too hairy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar
Oh wait..
Non, je suis American. Je parle une bonne quantite de francais bien.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodo
If you can speak enough to get drunk and laid you're fluent.
Our French teacher was smoking, so I took 4 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utlaw
If you cut the chamber you can control the dimensions, no doubt.
Then if you load for it you fit it to the chamber, if that means turning necks, so be it.
If it means inside reaming to get the right neck thickness, so be it.
But I'm guessing that someone who has a custom cut chamber that requires a specified neck thickness
Probabally isn't using a set of lee dies and dragging a expander ball through the neck of the brass of mixed headstamps
Like some of us do.
Our tolerances are more in our chambers in commercially bought rifles, so we don't have to turn/ream necks to get them to fit.
Not saying we could not get benefit from doing some of this, but how much benefit is the real question.
When the size die shrinks the neck when the case is fully supported in it, the neck should be true ( more so if it is turned)
But when there is no support around the neck, when the case comes out of the sizing die, can you be certain that when the expander ball gets pulled through the neck that it does not introduce any error?
When seating a bullet, if the neck has runout error in it even the best seating die won't fix it.
But with guages we should know what part of the process introduces the error and work to minimize it, whether turning necks, using bushing dies, body dies, collet dies, or floating bullet seaters.
I've never shot a platypus but they are so oogly I probably would.
I did eat a monkey's hand once, but that wuz in Panama and what happens in Panama stays in Panama. It wuz boiled, and the cook didn't really salt it enough... but "it tasted just like chicken".
Oh, ME-PLAT. I've never been the same since I discovered a meplat can be put on a round nosed bullet.
But you folks sure are a gnat on a flea's arse bunch of shooters, aren't you? I'll settle for shooting the water buffalo the flea is riding on. Hummm. I did shoot AT a water buffalo once, but have no idea whether or not I hit it. It's copper bell was going THUNK................... THUNK................. THUNK somewhere off in the night, and "night vision" hadn't really quite been invented yet, unless you count starlight scopes, and I don't. 'Specially on those bottom of a well with a lid on it kind of dark nights like that one was. But after a couple of rounds of HE in the general direction, that bell sure sped up a whole bunch.... thunk thunk thunk thunk... getting fainter till it faded away.
Shot at a boat once too. Missed IT too. I had no idea that a junk could come about and haul ass so damn fast.
My point is... sometimes it's just the thought... or the shot... that matters... not hitting whatever.
10% off coupon FBOOK10
http://www.21stcenturyshooting.com
This was interesting as well, see post #4 and the diffrences between a case guage and one cut with a chamber reamer. They are not all created equal.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=569377