Newbie reloading questions

I am thinking I might start to reload in .40 and .45 as I want to shoot more.

Other than Brass, powder, primers and projos what I am looking to establish a list of EVERYTHING I need.

I have been told dillon is the way to go, but the initial outlay for something I am not sure about is too much. I figure that if in 12 months I am still reloading I will upgrade.

I know the difference between single stage and progressive and with the volume I will be reloading, have no strong opinions either way.

Is there a Kit I can buy that has everything that I just add dies to, assemble and start reloading ? If so please point me in the direction.

thanks


NJC

I have been thinking of actually downgrading back to a lee classic turret press. Caliber changes are really easy. Fairly fast, just takes a little longer.
Get one of their kits, a good scale, dies, tumbler, media separator, couple of manuals.
Not too much besides that to get started.

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I am thinking I might start to reload in .40 and .45 as I want to shoot more.

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Defining "more" a little better would really help in terms of making appropriate suggestions.

"More" like 500 rounds a month, or a week? 1000 rounds? . . . <-- see what I mean?

Several companies make "kits" that contain scales, or powder measures, tools, etc. But some are far better tailored to small quantity reloading ("500 per month") and some for large quantity reloading.

Same hold true for the presses. Some are perfectly fine for "500 a month" and some are completely inadequate if you plan to reload "500 per week".

Come by the house and I'll run you through the basics of reloading on my 650. I promise the big check you write for one is worth every penny!

I learned a long time ago to go big early. I have regretted it every time I failed to do so. If you don't want to get a 650, the 550 is a solid machine as well.

Darned nice of AB to make that offer! . . and he is right as usual.

In the FWIW department, NJC you still have a standing open invitation to come check out our reloading facilities. Everything from single stages to XL650 and even a 550B and all the bells and whistles (tools) to load one cartridge at a time, or 500 an hour.

If you are only doing pistol stuff, a used Dillon Square Deal B would seeming be a good deal.

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Originally Posted by Dale Gribble

If you are only doing pistol stuff, a used Dillon Square Deal B would seeming be a good deal.

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The Square Deal is a heck of a little machine and mine just got from Dillon from its 17 year checkup. Really solid for pumping out pistol calibers up to 45 acp - I would not recommend it for 44 mag or 45 colt though, resizing those cases is a strain on those machines. But for 380, 9, 40, and 45, its the little engine that could. For high volume pistol and rifle, the 650 is an animal.

So would a SDB Be sufficient for maybe 500 rounds a month initially. With another set of dies?

AB and RUMBLER
i appreciate it. Still working on thr 262 mod1 project by the way.
I know i would like and appreciate a 650 or 550 but am trying to save some pain on initial investment..
if i can buy a kit and get loading in both calibers for the cost of a 550 that would be great.

I am not loooking to produce match grade ammo. Simply a decent quality practice ammo that i can affordably shoot in a higher quantity.
I have an idea that i would have no problem selling a used press they seem to go pretty quick on here.

SB yeah i talk to as many guys who reload with a lee press as reload with a dillon. I have seen dillons and they are well made. I have also seen lamborghinis and can admire them also.

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Originally Posted by NJC

So would a SDB Be sufficient for maybe 500 rounds a month initially. With another set of dies?

AB and RUMBLER
i appreciate it. Still working on thr 262 mod1 project by the way.
I know i would like and appreciate a 650 or 550 but am trying to save some pain on initial investment..
if i can buy a kit and get loading in both calibers for the cost of a 550 that would be great.

I am not loooking to produce match grade ammo. Simply a decent quality practice ammo that i can affordably shoot in a higher quantity.
I have an idea that i would have no problem selling a used press they seem to go pretty quick on here.

SB yeah i talk to as many guys who reload with a lee press as reload with a dillon. I have seen dillons and they are well made. I have also seen lamborghinis and can admire them also.

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I have a dillon 1050 so I load a shitload of rounds but when I first started out I used a single stage press.
By using a single stage I was able to take my time and load accurately and slowly to get the process down. Then I moved up to a progressive press where things get complicated and not so nice for the beginner.

Just my 2 cents.

I gotta backup the SDB idea. 500 RPM would be a cakewalk for it.

Additionally, you will want;

* - A brass case cleaner of some type. Whole 'nother can of worms to open there, but know that the majority of folks use a "dry" tumbler with corn cob and/or walnut hulls.
* - A vernier caliper to measure stuff with. You don't need a $200 one, but you also don't need a $9.99 one from harbor freight.
* - A powder scale. This need not be a high end scale, but it needs to be accurate and repeatable. You will use it to set your charge weights, occasionally check your charge weights, and to confirm the bullets you buy weigh what you expect them to. So it won't be a "very frequently" use tool, but important when you do need to use it.
* - Normally I would recommend here a reloading manual, and buying one is not a bad idea. But you have access to a buttload of load data by simply asking for it here on the forum . . or calling me on the phone.

Seems like that is about it for the 'really needs'. What am I overlooking, everyone?

Components. Buy them in bulk.
Powder Valley for primer and powder. Precision Delta or TJ Conavera for bullets.
If you don't have access to range brass, DiamondK brass has good rifle brass at decent prices.

Rumbler,
Exactly what I am looking for.. a you cant do it with out this list...or a stay away from this junk list.

SB, I have a hook up for brass, does buying powder and primers locally not save the $$ hazmat ?

Someone had told me about TJ conavera..good to get a second on them.

Something like this with the dies be ok ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEE-90030-BR...3D351287073493

or is this a better option ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Pro-1000...94251211&rt=nc

Just spent some time on the dillon site... $700 plus for a similar setup

NJC . Look at what used Dillon equipment sales for on eBay . If you change your mind you can damn near get your money back . Dillon equipment just doesn't depreciate I sold a 1050 for the same thing I paid for it after I used it for several years.

FLT, If Lee put out a calendar of the same quality/pics as Dillon, you'd be all about Lee too! Come on man!

http://www.submachinegirls.com/wp-co...5-Calendar.jpg

I used to live two hours away from the Dillon store in Scottsdale. I was there every chance I got and learned a TON just hanging out and listening.

For me, I have regretted every "almost what I want" purchase. Every one. I have never regretted buying big once it was paid for and it was water under the bridge.

Come over and knock out 1,000 rounds of your caliber of choice on the 650. It's worth it to delay purchasing one for a few months to save up enough to get one.

I'm seriously almost ready to offer to reload it FOR you with your components just to keep you out of inferior gear!

But not quite.

AB,
I'll get with you since it sounds serious. I dont want to end up hating myself.

If you go big, go blue. I have a Hornady LNL AP, it is ok, but really wish I had just gotten blue instead.

OK...so I can get .40 ammo for $14 a box, thats $280 a case
Projos are $140
powder $40 a lb
primers $32

If I get my brass for free I am saving $70 a case before shipping or hazmat.... Dayum... dont need another hobby, starting to wonder if this is really worth my time.

You won't save any money but you will get to shoot more. The savings on rifle ammo is a good bit more than pistol ammo. In most cases the ammo will be higher quality. Dillon equipment has a forever NO BULLSHIT warranty . Reloading is not for everyone. Ok I'm done.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

Maybe that works.

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Originally Posted by NJC

OK...so I can get .40 ammo for $14 a box, thats $280 a case
Projos are $140
powder $40 a lb
primers $32

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	7000 grains = 1lb
	cost	per	required	Makes	Cost
Xtreme 155gr Plated	$48.60	500	1	500	$0.10	http://www.xtremebullets.com/10-40-155-RNFP-p/xc1040-155rnfp-b0500.htm
Unique	$21.00	7000	5	1400	$0.02	http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2184418923/alliant-unique-smokeless-powder
Magtech	$26.00	1000	1	1000	$0.03	https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/21492
	$0.00	2500	1	2500	$0.00
				Per Round Cost	$0.14
				50 round price	$6.91

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Originally Posted by Rumbler

I gotta backup the SDB idea. 500 RPM would be a cakewalk for it.

Additionally, you will want;

* - A brass case cleaner of some type. Whole 'nother can of worms to open there, but know that the majority of folks use a "dry" tumbler with corn cob and/or walnut hulls.
* - A vernier caliper to measure stuff with. You don't need a $200 one, but you also don't need a $9.99 one from harbor freight.
* - A powder scale. This need not be a high end scale, but it needs to be accurate and repeatable. You will use it to set your charge weights, occasionally check your charge weights, and to confirm the bullets you buy weigh what you expect them to. So it won't be a "very frequently" use tool, but important when you do need to use it.
* - Normally I would recommend here a reloading manual, and buying one is not a bad idea. But you have access to a buttload of load data by simply asking for it here on the forum . . or calling me on the phone.

Seems like that is about it for the 'really needs'. What am I overlooking, everyone?

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i'd add a Wilson case guage in each caliber.

NJC. The 40 you shoot. Is it a glock?

I have glocks and H&Ks in 40
Also looking to shoot .45ACP but primarily .40 for now...

SO yes Dale, it is , why ?

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Originally Posted by NJC

I have glocks and H&Ks in 40
Also looking to shoot .45ACP but primarily .40 for now...

SO yes Dale, it is , why ?

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Glock 40's have an unsupported chamber. As I understand it their is a risk of a case rupture that is higher with reloading a glock with the stock barrel.

I don't own any .40 guns so I don't have first hand, but I am sure someone can enlighten us on the real issue.

Dale, this has been a known issue with Glocks in .40 for years. There is a very small part of the chamber right above the feed ramp that iwas unsupported. I am not sure if it is still so in current Glock generations.

Indications would be "smiley" faces on the base of the brass near the rim. REally in my understanding all you have to do is watch the cases and not load cases with smileys too hot.

Let me know if/when you get into the .40S&W reloading scene... I'll see if I can hook you up with some free brass if you need it.

I've not had any issues in some 15 years loading for the G22/G35. Glocks are not the only pistols with partially unsupported chambers. I still think it's a reloading error more than the chamber itself.

There have been improvements from what I understand.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/eBCpY8.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/911/PBK4KL.jpg

My G22 has literally thousands of rounds of reloads through it and I have never had a problem. I don't roll my own though I smoke Georgia Arms reloads almost exclusively.

Two thoughts:

1) Ask Kevin Mock (at the range) I worked up a load for his .40S&W that is definitely into the 10MM realm. And have reloaded that brass several times now. No smilies to speak of.

2) I agree with Bob 100%. But if you get or have smileys it is not the end of the world . . or your brass. There is a thing made by most of the die companies called a "push thru base sizing die". Here is the Redding version:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod39741.aspx

NJC you have 1K .40S&W brass headed your way... all in 50 round boxes.

PM inbound

Going to order these projos tonight unless the wisdom here says otherwise.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/105...ProductFinding

Was going to order some frog snot ones like AB shoots but I can get these for the same price. Lots of good reviews online.

I bought 1k of winchester small pistol primers today. Hope to make a trip to DSH tomorrow to track down a lb of powder. Brass is on the way. Once I sell this refrigerator the press will be on its way, or maybe sooner we will see.

http://www.xtremebullets.com/10-40-1...80hp-b0500.htm

Cheaper. I shoot 38 and 9mm stuff, its good. Supposed to be a thicker pleating than rainier and berrys..

Sometimes you can find powder online at basspro. Buy $100 worth or something and the shipping is free (including hazmat). Prices can be highish, but not Kevins high.

http://www.precisionbullets.com/store/ 40 Caliber - 170 RNF (.401). If you want to try a handful of these, PM me. Jim

Thanks Dale, I remember you saying about the powder from basspro. I figure that for this first batch I will try to find a pound of powder at DSH or KEvins and be free of the hazmat. Also the gunshow is weekend after next and they usually have a bunch of reloading stuff.

Rumbler gave me a long list of powders he uses for my appication so I think I should be bale to find something. Should this be a success and I continue to reload, I will definitely buyin larger quantities.

JMW, thanks for that offer and link.

Hand loading can be as expensive or as inexpensive, as fast or as slow, as exact or as loosey-goosey, as run-of-the-mill or cutting edge, as up-to-the-minute or as retro, as you want it to be. Sometimes I like to just sit and load brass shotgun shells with a hand primer, a stick I whittled to barely fit inside of the shells, wads I cut from cardboard using a chamfered pistol cartridge in the right caliber, a hammer.... and some melted beeswax. I suppose if I really, really, wanted to go completely low tech I could figure out how to de-prime without a press and how to prime without a store-bought priming tool. But that would be just too much of an affectation, because bottom line, there really isn't any truly low tech with cartridge firearms. I always advise buying cheap equipment to start and working up after you are sure you really want to hand load stuff, but buying good manuals appropriate to the kind of loading one plans to do... AND READING THEM! The Lee and Lyman manuals are the most generally applicable because they aren't solely written to hawk proprietary components... but whatever manuals a new hand loader looks at they should read the general conceptual part a few times before going to a specific caliber and starting to assemble ammunition. The devil isn't entirely in the details. It's just as much in having a clear understanding of general concepts many of which change somewhat from pistol, to rifle, to shotgun... and moreso, much, much, moreso for "black" as opposed to smokeless powder. Take smokeless powder concepts to loading black powder, and you can seriously blow something up (possibly yourself) in short order... and to some extent, vice versa. I specialize in loading almost everything under the sun, some of which involves cardboard templates to cut paper cartridges or paper-patched (wrapped) bullets, but as of yet I still haven't gotten around to buying any Dillon presses.

I agree with you winter soldier,I had one of the blue beasts 20yrs ago,do not plan on owning another one.I let some other guy own the blue bastard.Hated it.

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Originally Posted by Johnny

I agree with you winter soldier,I had one of the blue beasts 20yrs ago,do not plan on owning another one.I let some other guy own the blue bastard.Hated it.

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That's a total 180 degrees from my experience! I absolutely love mine.

I am pretty close to not buying anymore plates bullets. You have to watch and make sure you don't overcrimp. Not so with the fmj bullets like the precision delta ones. Starting off the plated are fine though. The most important thing is to just do it.
Glad you are doing it, we can always use another hobby.

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Originally Posted by SB

I am pretty close to not buying anymore plates bullets. You have to watch and make sure you don't overcrimp. Not so with the fmj bullets like the precision delta ones. Starting off the plated are fine though. The most important thing is to just do it.

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What do you crimp with? I use Lee's Factory Crimp Die and I've not noticed an issue.

Rcbs die with taper crimp. Have used the FCD before and didn't care for it. Mostly personal preference. Seemed to squish lead bullets too much.
This is mostly in 45 though.

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Originally Posted by AB

That's a total 180 degrees from my experience! I absolutely love mine.

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◄ Ecclesiastes 3 ►

1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

In many ways the difference between the highest blue Dillon down through the green and orange and any other colors to the lowest Lee red, is all about time, and PURPOSE.

The complex and expensive models are good for making lots and lots of rounds identical in most or all respects, very fast... I would call that "bulk" hand loading.

The models in between have niches for lesser production with more changes between one session and the next, changes in caliber or changes in bullet weight or powder amount, crimp, or other details... They are less speedy and generally more adept at producing greater variety at a slower pace. When you get down to the simplest presses you may have either the slowest and cheapest way to make lots of identical rounds, or one of the easiest ways of making just a few rounds of something or another of all kinds... OR a way to make ammo that just CANNOT be made on the speedy, more complicated presses. Try loading a .577/.45 Martini Henry, a 12.7x44R (roughly .51 caliber) Swedish Rolling Block, or even a more common .45-70 Government cartridge on yer fancy-schmancey rocket reloader. Another specialty item is .50 BMG, because of its extreme OAL (OVERALL LENGTH)! More likely than not your typical progressive press of ANY price will absolutely REFUSE to even accept the dies for such calibers, because they are far larger than the 5/8" so-called "standard" die size. There is in fact, more than one "standard". It works the other way, too. What good is a progressive press for reloading .25 ACP? (Don't bother asking "what kind of idiot?"... that sort of question just won't get you anywhere you want to go, at all.) The "one size loads all" hand primers don't even work with either the extremely small or extremely large cases... and I prefer to prime that way because I can FEEL the primer being properly seated. Ever see a primer smashed to oblivion sideways across a primer pocket? If you haven't, you haven't been looking... that USELESS load was most likely run through a progressive press... and I've even seen that situation in "factory" ammo. I load a plethora of calibers, usually not so many rounds of the same kind at the same time... and they can vary from .25 to .577 in case head diameter. If you do have a progressive, and you ever want to load some of the less-usual large calibers, you will probably have to drop down to a simple D press. An even less expensive C press is handier for tiny or middle sized calibers though a non-progressive turrent press will also handle most of those calibers faster. Lee has an extremely inexpensive hand press that needs no bench to mount a press on. It also puts a lot of stress on the user's hand so I wouldn't recommend it for any but very low production purposes... but it is a good option to take to a range with components and other necessary light equipment and adjust charges in real time, loading a few test loads at a time, at some shady place off of the firing line. I have a Lee C press that is mounted to one of those Frankford Arsenal portable plastic reloading stands that I have taken to the range for that sort of purpose. It's bulkier, but plenty light and portable, extremely inexpensive, and doesn't strain the hand.

Hand loading presses are NOT either/or, are NOT "one size fits all", and NO press no matter how expensive fullfills every possible purpose. If you do all kinds of things with them you will need all kinds of presses and other gadgets too. If you never do anything but the boring and predictable task of putting the same charge and the same bullet in the same COMMON caliber of cartridge, for only a few calibers... that's Dillon Territory. I live mostly in RCBS Territory with some Lee add-ons, but I've recently found that sometimes the "cheap" Lee stuff works better and faster on turret jobs than with a RCBS turret... not to mention that the Lee turret heads have a better number of available die mounting holes, are lighter and more easily storable with the dies attached, and cost cents on the dollar to what RCBS turret heads cost.

It is only possible to get "ideological" about brands or even types of presses for hand loading, if the ideologue has a VERY NARROW mental frame of reference.

I keep an RCBS single stage around for when I want to turn out the lights and pretend I'm in the 1800's too! Great fun.

In all seriousness, though, every machine has its limitations. No, you're not going to reload every caliber on the planet on a progressive machine, but that's not my purpose in reloading, nor is it for most people around here. I never give advice on really anything until I know the why/how of their question, so my brand loyalty will always stay inside the parameters of the person asking.

As far as the sideways primers, I see that in my press maybe once in 20,000 rounds. It's always been caused by a crimped primer pocket rather than a failure of the machine to align them right, but I have (if I do say so myself) excellent technique and pace on the reloading press.

I wouldn't consider brand loyalty to be VERY NARROW in thinking because Dillon doesn't build machines to reload obscure cartridges, though. Different machines for different needs.

(GO BLUE!!)

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Originally Posted by Dale Gribble

What do you crimp with? I use Lee's Factory Crimp Die and I've not noticed an issue.

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I just this week took my .40 Lee FCD out as an experiment. I was also running a Lee undersized sizing die, but since my brass source started shooting 4th Gen Glocks I haven't needed to, so I went back to the standard Dillon sizing die. My issue with some ammo accuracy (I think) is the cases I'm getting might be on the thick side and the FCD is undersizing the bullet, making them pattern rather than group at any kind of distance.

I never had the issue with properly jacketed bullets, though. Only plated, lead, and coated ones.

I'll keep happily churning out ammo on my Lee Loadmaster. Under $200 bucks, and once you learn from other users ( http://loadmastervideos.com/ ) and throw Lee's manual away its pretty dead nuts reliable.

I get 90% of the speed (from what others tell me) of more expensive brands, with perhaps 5% more hassle.

The load master works for me because I am willing to work around it quirks, and for my volume it was more than affordable.

I certainly go along with the 'some presses are suited to some jobs'.

For high volume production of "straight" wall pistol cartridges there are two 650XL's on the bench.
For medium volume pistol and smaller rifle cartridges there is a 550B on the bench.
For large pistol (think 460 S&W neighborhood) and precision or large rifle cartridges there are two single stage rock crushers on the bench. . . and I'd like to have a third one.

Thus far the only "quirk" I have found is all their tendency to crush or pinch the crap out of a finger if left between the shell plate and the bottom of the die plate. ;)

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Originally Posted by Rumbler

I certainly go along with the 'some presses are suited to some jobs'.

For high volume production of "straight" wall pistol cartridges there are two 650XL's on the bench.
For medium volume pistol and smaller rifle cartridges there is a 550B on the bench.
For large pistol (think 460 S&W neighborhood) and precision or large rifle cartridges there are two single stage rock crushers on the bench. . . and I'd like to have a third one.

Thus far the only "quirk" I have found is all their tendency to crush or pinch the crap out of a finger if left between the shell plate and the bottom of the die plate. ;)

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*ahem*

Not COMPLETELY accurate there buddy. ;-)


*for clarification, I've seen Rumbler deal with a few "quirks" on a 650. To be fair, there was a team of untrained monkeys making their best effort to make his life difficult... I just like poking the bear.

Rumbler,I have a rock chucker that I have been using for over 40yrs can't kill it.

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Originally Posted by Johnny

Rumbler,I have a rock chucker that I have been using for over 40yrs can't kill it.

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I'm right behind you. I still use one as I simply don't shoot enough pistol reloads to need a progressive nor do I shoot enough .223 reloads. I have an ammo advantage and when that ends, perhaps I'll need a progressive... I'd love to have one of those bigger/faster machines.