Thank You Event - Discussion

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Originally Posted by Rumbler

Awful lot of unknowns. Thank heaven Franklin, Jefferson, and the rest didn't let that stop them.




Host a friggin picnic.

Organize a private picnic. Invite every emergency responder and their family you and a few friends can make contact with. Don't charge them a dime. Don't plan any speeches. Don't ask them for a flippin thing. Tell them it is happening as a simple thank you. Hold it where you can legally be visibly armed. If you hold true to your word, you won't need to make a speech.

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Outstanding idea, but why small scale? What about an Oath keepers / CCGF sponsored "Recognition" picnic at say, Maclay Gardens with music, swimming and BBQ? With a little initiative I bet we can get a few guys with mobile pits for a few whole hogs and a couple hundred pounds of chicken, maybe fry up some grouper and boil some mud bugs. Venue and menu will need to be worked on but the concept is there. Free to current and retired military, LEO, Fire, EMT + family, and $10-20? donation per family for the rest of us, proceeds to charity and NRA. The goal, Labor Day Weekend. I'll provide a sound system, a hog and 25# of coleslaw.

ADMINS, should this move to a new thread?

Anybody know Preston Scott?

Dave conceptually I like your proposal. I think it needs some refinement, but that is why I moved it here for discussion.

Just to get the discussion moving, I have one question and one suggestion.

Question: Is legal to open carry at Maclay Gardens?

My reason for suggesting an open carry venue was to illustrate to the participants that not only are guns in holsters not dangerous, but the people who wear guns in holsters (whether open or concealed) are generally decent normal people. Who just happen to care about THEM enough to stand up publicly and thank them and their families for all they do for the public.

Suggestion: The NRA should not be mentioned.
I believe that automatically implies "political" in some folks mind. I see this event's value as stated just above; it is a demonstration we are normal people (OK, so I have have to pretend, but I'm willing to take that bullet for the greater good).

As an idea, nothing more, funds could be pooled and divided fairly among providers/facilitators. OR as you propose; given to charities . . . or some combination. Again, this is just an idea. It is not a suggestion.

All?

Ideas? Suggestions? Don't say a damned word if you have absolutely no intention of actively participating in this event, if it happens.

Oh, and yes. Preston Scott. Communicating directly with him is not a problem.

Actually, the Division of Recreation and Parks does have the authority to ban firearms from state parks under FSS 258.007, their rule making authority. It is specifically prohibited in fac62d-2 [ 62D-2.014 Activities and Recreation. section 10] [link below]:

(10) Hunting and Firearms. Hunting, trapping or the pursuit of wildlife is prohibited on all park property, except in Reserves,
as authorized by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. No person shall use, carry, or possess in any park
weapons such as firearms of any type, air rifles, spring guns, bows and arrows, gigs (except in areas where gigs may be legally used
for saltwater fishing), sling shots, or any other forms of weapons or trapping devices potentially dangerous to wildlife or human
safety except when such weapons or traps are used for resource management purposes as authorized in this subsection.Shooting
into park areas from beyond park boundaries is prohibited. Any device which is employed to kill, immobilize, or capture any
wildlife or any device otherwise used in violation of this chapter shall be seized and confiscated by law enforcement officers. The
Division may authorize the control of nuisance animals and may remove all exotic animals from parks by trapping and other
necessary means for park resource management purposes. Such authorization shall be in the form of a license, permit, or contract
negotiated by the parties or made pursuant to an advertised bid by the Division. Authorization may be obtained in the same manner
as stated in subsection 62D-2.013(7), F.A.C., herein.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/Law/docum...k/fac62d-2.pdf

FSS 790 specifically reserves the right to control firearms to the State of Florida, of which DEP is a part. And the state legislature has empowered them to make such rules as are necessary to manage state parks. Unlike counties and cities, possession of firearms in a state park not only can be restricted, it has been. And it carries the weight of law.

Check me on this, please. But I think that I would respect the no firearms signs at state parks.

We need a venue were we can carry open, A range or private property. Or a differant aproach is carry concealed and say we are, but as secret squirrel as most of us are do we want to show everyone that we carry?

But this is getting off topic. Sorry

Maybe, However it is important

As Harley said, a range or private property would probably be the best bet. Maclay was more of an illustration of a setting than a proposal, they don't have that much parking. I'm leaning towards private property because of parking and to promote the normal and family atmosphere (to them) that would be difficult to achieve at a range.

I also agree with the political aspect of not overtly bringing the NRA in to it. I tend to think that open carry would be just, if not more alienating to many people. There are other more subtle ways to promote our 2A agenda, after all, we need them to "realize" that believing and supporting the Constitution is not an extreme viewpoint. We would never be successful trying to shove it down their throat. How about a raffle for a Talon membership or training and a surprise appearance by Eddie Eagle and Smokey the Bear for the kids?

I don't know Preston Scott except for hearing him on the radio but I think he could be a valuable asset for framing the concept of the event and the agenda. We just need to be careful about just preaching to the choir. That accomplishes nothing but getting a full belly and having a good time.

Ya'll seem to have this pretty well in hand, but if I can help in any way let me know.

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Originally Posted by crawdaddy34

Ya'll seem to have this pretty well in hand, but if I can help in any way let me know.

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Hey, you are the event planner. We are just giving you something to do. Think of it as putting cornmeal on the mullet for the cook. :cool:

OK....

In that case, I would propose that open carry is not such a hot idea. I'm thinking that if this thing is a success, there will be lot's of FAMILYS there. That mean's mom's and kids.

Just think about that for a sec.....

You get just ONE, that takes issue with a bunch of guys she doesn't know open carrying around her kids and that could get ugly. At the very least, it's going to make some people uncomfortable, which is the exact opposite of what we are trying to accomplish....

I think there are other ways to get the point across of who we are without openly displaying firearms.

Add that to the enormous amount of fairly recent NEGATIVE publicity surrounding folks open carrying, (anyone remember Starbucks?) and I personally think that may not be the best way to get the point across...

That, and open carry REALLY limits our options for a venue....

But I'll help any way I can organize what ever ya'll want. I can't promise that I'll be there at this time, but I'll put in the work to help make it a success if you need it.

I would also like to throw out there that if PS is involved, he be asked to keep it off his morning show. At least not talk about it untill AFTER the event.

It would be a great way to get the word out, BUT.... I can see that spirling out of control PDQ. The last thing you want, if the idea is to simply thank the local first responders, is a bunch of local news vans lined up trying to get interviews....

I have to disagree, the way to get people comfortable around guns is to take the mystic aura away from them. If people start to see them on your belt like a cell phone it becomes common place, the fact that we are required to hide our weapons implies there is something wrong with carrying that must be hidden from proper folk.

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Originally Posted by 0utlaw

I have to disagree, the way to get people comfortable around guns is to take the mystic aura away from them. If people start to see them on your belt like a cell phone it becomes common place, the fact that we are required to hide our weapons implies there is something wrong with carrying that must be hidden from proper folk.

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I know, and I struggled with that very thing while I was writing that. There is no easy answer, I'm just offering another perspective.

I guess it comes down to how much of a 2A statement do you want to make vs. how comfortable do you want to make the "guests of honor". The truth is not EVERY person that will/would attend is going to be cool with seeing a bunch of folks they don't know with guns. However, if we were to subtly show them that yes, we are gun owners and supporters of the constitution, and we are ALSO normal people. Not the right wing radicals that we are often portrayed to be, I think that will be better received by the masses.

Maybe I misunderstood the point of the event, but I thought it was to thank this group of people, not convert them. And the hard reality is this, with all the media attention surrounding guns right now, it WILL APPEAR to be politically motivated if we all strap up.

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Originally Posted by Jafar

Fuck the public, twice

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:thinking:

not sure what you are saying here....

There are generations of people uncomfortable with guns and being around them won't change their minds. Brainwashed by the schools,the government, and the news media they are lost to reeducation. Such thinking assumes common sense and we have lost common ground as a people. Divisiveness,sensory overload and a feel of a total lack of control or purpose except for short term self satisfaction has replaced the values of hard work,self reliance, and a hope for the future that used to unite us. But I digress....

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Originally Posted by crawdaddy34

:thinking:

not sure what you are saying here....

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I think he's saying to fuck the public. Twice. They're all morons and sheep, for the most part.

If this is going to be a touchy feely let's make sure nobody is in no way anxious or uncomfortable event I'll just bow out here per Mike's request as I would have no interest in participating in that type of event.

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Originally Posted by 0utlaw

If this is going to be a touchy feely let's make sure nobody is in no way anxious or uncomfortable event I'll just bow out here per Mike's request as I would have no interest in participating in that type of event.

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Pump ya brakes Buggs....

I'm just offering up an alternate perspective and trying to think the whole thing thru. I'm still admittedly confused and slightly unsure of how this will/should proceed. That's the purpose of the discussion.

Don't take your ball home just yet...

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Originally Posted by HarleyBrent

Actually, the Division of Recreation and Parks does have the authority to ban firearms from state parks under FSS 258.007, their rule making authority. It is specifically prohibited in fac62d-2 [ 62D-2.014 Activities and Recreation. section 10] [link below]:

(10) Hunting and Firearms. Hunting, trapping or the pursuit of wildlife is prohibited on all park property, except in Reserves,
as authorized by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. No person shall use, carry, or possess in any park
weapons such as firearms of any type, air rifles, spring guns, bows and arrows, gigs (except in areas where gigs may be legally used
for saltwater fishing), sling shots, or any other forms of weapons or trapping devices potentially dangerous to wildlife or human
safety except when such weapons or traps are used for resource management purposes as authorized in this subsection.Shooting
into park areas from beyond park boundaries is prohibited. Any device which is employed to kill, immobilize, or capture any
wildlife or any device otherwise used in violation of this chapter shall be seized and confiscated by law enforcement officers. The
Division may authorize the control of nuisance animals and may remove all exotic animals from parks by trapping and other
necessary means for park resource management purposes. Such authorization shall be in the form of a license, permit, or contract
negotiated by the parties or made pursuant to an advertised bid by the Division. Authorization may be obtained in the same manner
as stated in subsection 62D-2.013(7), F.A.C., herein.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/Law/docum...k/fac62d-2.pdf

FSS 790 specifically reserves the right to control firearms to the State of Florida, of which DEP is a part. And the state legislature has empowered them to make such rules as are necessary to manage state parks. Unlike counties and cities, possession of firearms in a state park not only can be restricted, it has been. And it carries the weight of law.

Check me on this, please. But I think that I would respect the no firearms signs at state parks.

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Just for clarification, that link is not functioning, there is a new pdf and it reads

"No person shall use or openly display in any state park weapons such as firearms of any type, air rifles, spring guns, cross bows, bows and arrows, gigs (except in areas where gigs may be legally used for saltwater fishing), sling shots, electronic weapons, devices which fire a dart or projectile, or any other forms of weapons or trapping devices potentially dangerous to wildlife or human safety except when such weapons or traps are used for resource management purposes as authorized in this subsection. "

Doesn't say you cant carry, just that you can not USE or DISPLAY.....

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Originally Posted by Jafar

I'm thinking that the OP had this in mind as a pro 2A event, which would require the public assuming that guns would be apart of it. I could never imagine walking into a group of people all open carrying and not thinking "'Murica, fuck yeah."

If the public are squeamish to the idea of guns they can go to the countless other gun-free events that happen every weekend. That, or try some old fashioned Uncle Peter's Pussy Poultice and get over it. Ya dig?

To have this event without the presence of firearms would be the equivalent of the French celebrating a won battle.

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I get that. I really do. And like I already said, I'm admittedly unsure/confused.

My interpretation was this was more of a "thank you" event hosted by a bunch of guys that like guns than a pro-2A event. If I was off base I apologize.

For the record, I'm cool with OC for the event. I was just trying to accommodate what I THOUGHT the event was about.

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Originally Posted by Jafar

Dont apologize to me dude, I see what you're saying. The question remains; who or what are we thanking?

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That was a general, not at you.

:cheers:

And yes, that's my question as also.

I like the idea. The event is one I would like to attend. However, I also feel that open carry is a bad idea. The concept is a whole lot like the segregation of blacks, women's rights, or gay marriage... The public is just not ready for the change yet. It must be made in small doses. The political climate of the sheep pack is simply not ready to witness several of their flock suddenly showing their wolf teeth. How about a "conceal carry" event? -even though I am sure most in attendance will be packing anyway.

Also, along with Preston Scott, that fellow from Freedom 93.3 (An AirForce Veteran) may be good to include. Forget his name... He is on in the afternoons

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Originally Posted by Jafar

Either way, I'll come. I'll just let the wife carry and I'll continuously lead a 4 hour Lord Calvert fueled "U.S.A." chant.

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Any one else?

Attachment 2284

I'm not sure I understand the concern about open carry. The intent isn't (as I understand it) to invite the great unwashed masses, but first responders. Now fireman and EMS folks may not be comfortable around guns, but I would expect most law enforcement folks to be comfortable, and if not, the point was (again, as I understood it) to start to establish that comfort for them.

If they arrived and left because they decided they didn't like citizens carrying guns, they probably aren't going to change their mind regardless of what we do.

The idea was to thank them, and at the same time subtly do a soft presentation of responsible citizens who are also gun owners.

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Originally Posted by Jafar

Either way, I'll come. I'll just let the wife carry and I'll continuously lead a 4 hour Lord Calvert fueled "U.S.A." chant.

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Jafar - "MURICA!"

Everyone else - "FUCK YEAH!"

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Originally Posted by OscarMike1127

I like the idea. The event is one I would like to attend. However, I also feel that open carry is a bad idea. The concept is a whole lot like the segregation of blacks, women's rights, or gay marriage... The public is just not ready for the change yet. It must be made in small doses. The political climate of the sheep pack is simply not ready to witness several of their flock suddenly showing their wolf teeth. How about a "conceal carry" event? -even though I am sure most in attendance will be packing anyway.

Also, along with Preston Scott, that fellow from Freedom 93.3 (An AirForce Veteran) may be good to include. Forget his name... He is on in the afternoons

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I think it's time we start sittin' our asses in the front of the bus then.

What I am seeing is an opportunity for something that goes beyond a single event. I see something more like an organization that, as a main annual event puts on a “Recognition Picnic” for First R’s along with Military and their families. The goal, as I see it is to, on a local level, close the gap between the general public and the LEO’s, and to promote the Constitution. There is a trend, as I’m sure you are all aware, of a widening gap between the public and LEO’s. Just do a search on you tube for “cop vs” and remember that this is where the next generation is getting their information. The confrontational approach to achieving general acceptance of a 2A society will not work. As polebarn said, we are fighting generations of indoctrination.
With that said, I think we should start with the picnic. Not an open carry rally. We need to be very careful to avoid ALL politicizing of this event. As was said, we should NOT promote it on PS’s show, mention the NRA or initially show any pro gun stance. That will alienate much of the public that we need to reach. I know that it sounds like I am proposing the “using” of the First R’s as a tool to achieve a political goal and that is a fair assessment because it is the truth. However our point is to show appreciation, make their lives easier and safer and to effectively promote the same things that we, and most of them believe in.
Once this event becomes an accepted community tradition, we can then start to slowly and carefully ease in our agenda but from an established position of acceptance in the community.

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Originally Posted by Jafar

Yeah, your heart's in the right place, but not something I'm interested in.

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I hear you and completely understand. I would much rather take a hammer and bash in the zombies sculls but it's illegal to do that and they are voters.

Will you at least come in and eat some pig?

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Originally Posted by DaveW

I hear you and completely understand. I would much rather take a hammer and bash in the zombies sculls

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Sounds kinky.

Has anyone done anything like this before? I'm wondering if it has been, how it was handled. If not, we're going into uncharted territory. There are always arguments for taking things easy and slowly turning up the heat. I don't think we've got that kind of time. I think open-carry would be a great way to make us indistinguishable from those that attend. I think we would be covered if any advertisement or flyer or ANYTHING we put out to promote the event clearly stated that it is both alcohol free and open-carry friendly, that would prevent surprises and the combination of the two statements would put some minds at ease.

I met the new TPD Police Chief last night, and he seems like a pretty stand up guy. I think it would be wonderful if we approached him with the idea and got his feedback.

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Originally Posted by jonastio

I met the new TPD Police Chief last night, and he seems like a pretty stand up guy. I think it would be wonderful if we approached him with the idea and got his feedback.

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Not as the main course, right?

;)

As I see it, there are 4 questions that need to be asked about every suggestion, especially mine.

1. What is the end game goal?
2. Who is your real, long term target audience?
3. Will this tactic effectively help bring that audience around to at least respect our views on the subject?
4. Has it been tried before and did it accomplish #3 or did it make us and our views look more radical to that target audience?


What will we call it? Any ideas?

1-Reverse the trend of demonizing guns and gun owners

2-The people who are not exposed to guns or gun owners on a daily basis or don't realize that they are because we don't fit the image they are expecting.

3- As long as we keep Jafar somewhat sober.

4-Not by us, if you want it done right.....

1. Return the country to constitutional rule.

2. Those who work for the government and who could use force against those trying to achieve #1.

3. Either way you learn something.

4. It does both, but long term it is probably a benefit. Look at the civil rights movement. Before people stood up and asserted their rights people gave no thought to the situation as it existed. Over time saw the hypocrisy. Over time enough minds changed to make huge strides.

One more thing, if "your" goal is to win the hearts and minds of the LEO's, join Oath Keepers and put some of your energy there, their success can not be denied. We are all fighting for the same things, just on different flanks. Different flanks call for different tactics.

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Originally Posted by Jafar

I think I'm nicer when I'm not...

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Sobriety is a relative term, at least that is what I tell myself.

Not for nothin, or whatever my opinion is worth these days, but if this is a "Thank you, public safety professionals" event, we probably need to let it be that, and not a 2A rally dressed up as a "Thank you".

That smells a little bit like using the for our 2A purposes. Especially EMTs and Firefighters...Cops, I get it - they carry guns, we like guns...etc...but EMTs carry stethoscopes...they have as little professional interest in firearms as a school teacher.

If you want to throw a pro-2A open cary BBQ gun show-and-tell event, do that. But dont dress it up like some kind of public service event.

Just say thanks, for thanks sake - without trying to prove a point or change anybody's mind about an unrelated topic.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

One more thing, if "your" goal is to win the hearts and minds of the LEO's, join Oath Keepers and put some of your energy there, their success can not be denied. We are all fighting for the same things, just on different flanks. Different flanks call for different tactics.

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I joined Oath Keepers, but it seems to me that gearing this towards Oath Keepers is like preaching to the choir. Maybe I'm wrong. However perhaps working with the members of Oathkeepers to bring the first responders who might be 'on the edge' would be very useful.

A couple of veteran cops I know have told me that over time many cops end up with a circle of friends that is pretty much only cops.

"A journey of a thousand miles is started with a single step."

I'm going to go wee if I can find the thread I split this topic off from. Seems some folks are a little uncertain of what has brought his thread about.



. . . . be right back . . . .

It is the thread about the possible ban of tiny cheap imported garbage ammo (paraphrased).


Here is the root of this thread.

Awful lot of unknowns. Thank heaven Franklin, Jefferson, and the rest didn't let that stop them.


I know this: "Many voices speak louder than a single voice". No matter how often or fervently that single voice speaks.


Given that, it seems to me that there are a number of avenues a single voice can attempt to use that are worth trying.

1) Become an organizer for a national effort. An active one.
2) Join and participate in an existing national effort. An active one.
3) Be so active that there is not a suit in the STATE level administration that does not recognize you on sight. So active the libtard suits turn around and walk quickly in the other direction when they recognize you.
4) . . . . there is more . . . put as much effort into thinking of them as you do into looking for a deal on cheap imported garbage ammo to shoot.

Right here on this forum is an opportunity for you to get face to face with those people that folks like BB are so convinced will squash you in a heartbeat if simply given the opportunity to;

Oath Keepers.


Join.
Participate.
Get to know them.

NRA
Buying law costs money. If you think that your annual dues is enough you are not active enough to know the truth.
Join. Buy memberships for every liberal turd you know. They make GREAT "fuck you" gifts!
Participate.
Recruit.

Host a friggin picnic.

Organize a private picnic. Invite every emergency responder and their family you and a few friends can make contact with. Don't charge them a dime. Don't plan any speeches. Don't ask them for a flippin thing. Tell them it is happening as a simple thank you. Hold it where you can legally be visibly armed. If you hold true to your word, you won't need to make a speech.


See? There ARE things we can do to multiply our voice. We just have to put as much effort into it as we put into finding a deal on cheap imported garbage ammo to shoot.