I assume there is a bowling pin matching tonight.

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Originally Posted by Dale Gribble

(BTW, what is kiinda?)

If the handgun was a single shot, or revolver, perhaps. However if its semi auto, then you have the bolt or slide or whatever spreading that impulse out over even more time. Plus with hand gun, what you the shoot feels is cushioned by your wrists or elbows or other parts of your body moving.

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Good point, but still the same about of gross energy, which is what prompted Jafar's ire.

And you can kiinda fuck off.

Here's some things that are not being covered;

Recoil is implied and felt by each shooter differently. It is not a measure of expended energy, it is a factor of momentum. The energy is the function of bullet weight times velocity squared, while recoil is a function of bullet weight and velocity, not squared. Hence my original statement on the recoil being exponentially smaller.

Recoil is also related to the relative mass of the platform firing the weapon as well as the mass and anatomical strength of the shooter, which are multiple factors that have absolutely no effect on the energy of the projectile.

Another thing that I have seen no consideration of is the material and mass of the projectile involved. Projectiles of different materials will vary in expansion and resistance leading to inconsistencies in your hypothesis. More friction will develop factors of muzzle energy and velocity that will have absolutely no effect on the recoil of the weapon.

Note that it is *momentum* and not KE that is transfered equally to both the projectile and the rifle. This is important because of the very different nature of these two quantities:
Momentum is linear and gives both mass and velocity equal "weight".
Momentum = Mass * Velocty
KE is non-linear and HEAVILY favors velocity:
KE = 0.5 * Mass * Velocity^2

Qualitatively, that means there are essentially two "methods" of generating KE: increase mass or increase velocity. Increasing either or both of these parameters will yield a directly proportional increase in momentum, BUT increasing velocity will yield a *whole lot more* KE than increasing mass due to the non-linear relationship described above.

Quantitatively, let's compare two .45 ACP loads: a traditional 230 grain and a 96 grain "Defender" from Magsafe.

Firing both from a 38-ounce, 5" 1911:
Bullet Weight / MV / ME (or KE) / Momentum / Recoil Velocity / Recoil Energy
230gr / 835 fps / 356 ft-lb / 0.852 slug-fps / 11.6 fps / 4.96 ft-lb
96gr / 1760 fps / 660 ft-lb / 0.750 slug-fps / 10.2 fps / 3.84 ft-lb

Thus, the load with the most muzzle energy does not always recoil the hardest

If you're going to copy and paste somebody else's opinion, I'd source it.

And just because the inertia of a gun and shooter doesn't equal the inertia of a bullet doesn't mean the momentum applied isn't the same.

I want to see the cake Ike comes up with for this.....:dunno:

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Originally Posted by Tack Driver

If you're going to copy and paste somebody else's opinion, I'd source it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tack Driver

And just because the inertia of a gun and shooter doesn't equal the inertia of a bullet doesn't mean the momentum applied isn't the same.

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I can't source it because it's anonymous, that's why the font is different than mine.

My argument is laid out above. I'll let everyone apply it as they will.

So who won the 200 yard grudge match? The 50 yard rimfire pin match was fun tonight.

Mollary.

If you put $100 on the old guy, someone owes you some money. :cool:

5 pin tops, 7 shots.


. . . not that I would ever brag or anything. :banana:

I lost, Rumbler won, fair and square. I'm ready for my lumps gentlemen. Go ahead and pile on :-)