That's a fair statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utlaw
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That's a fair statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utlaw
I can't... I wasn't there. Were you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Gribble
Exactly.
Nope. But I can't imagine a situation where I would shoot a man in his car at his house and not at least be arrested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airgator0470
If its all kosher than release all the data.
Sorry, I have trust issues with all government. Cops, and Courts are part of that. Individuals that I've dealt with from those realms have ranged from the very trustworthy to one step above scumbag.
Airgator, Rumber and Yankee miss the point.
If a civilian encounter had the same outcome as most of these police incidents, we would be arrested, and if we couldn't make bail we would be staying in jail.
However when this happens with cops they are put a paid administrative leave.
We are not treated the same.
No, but Roy Middleton was in fact in his own carport in his own car and drilled by multiple deputies. Then again, Escambia County has a track record such as crawling through open windows at 10 pm and shooting dogs in bedrooms. I think the point being made is more transparency and less hiding behind unions. Perhaps the public would then have more faith in IAD such as the current situation with TPD and warrantless searches. Of course this is thread drift from the active shooter discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airgator0470
BBI know you don't like it but the fact of the mater is that approximately 70% of the people who physically fit Roy Middelton's description have either done prison time, will do prison time, or currently are doing prison time.
That is according to the statistics of the DOJ, FBI, and BOP (bureau of prisons).
That means a reasonable person would be highly 'on alert' when encountering such a person in what a reasonable person could conceive is the commission of a felony. Further, a reasonable person, upon realizing the Roy Middleton was not responding to lawful orders, might even conclude that IN FACT they were encountering a felon committing another felony crime.
Ever heard of "three strikes"? If a reasonable person was charged with apprehending criminals they could very reasonably wonder . . . . will this be strike two or three?
I'd have been ready to shoot the SOB full of holes if he didn't get completely compliant completely quickly.
Your opinion is based on HIND SIGHT. Now I can't help your thinking that condemning the people who would die if necessary to protect your ass are slime balls because they do not have the gift of pre-hind sight is appropriate. But I can sure get upset about you being part of the problem that causes shit like that to happen in the first place. Isn't your job teaching little "Roy Middeltons"?
You dodged the second part of the example in Escambia county where the white couple was dragged out of bed into the hall and their dogs shot in the bedroom. For the record I don't teach "little Roy Middletons." I am mostly a researcher for the A & M part and prat of my unit is made up of USDA. The courses I teach are graduate level courses. Furthermore, I have sent several graduate students and seniors for ccw licenses etc and I wouldn't do that for people I wouldn't turn my back on. I have news for you Mike, there are white people in all walks of life I wont turn my back on. Frankly I don't give a damn if you get upset about my job. It has nothing to do with the fact that I am pro-LEO. I also believe that if the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments can be violated for any race, religion or political party, it will be done for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbler
BB how many arrests are made every day? How many dopers and gangbangers taken down every day?
Do you not think that some sense of scale is in order?
You know, like when one can say with certainty that approximately 70% of one demographic group is known to a specific behavior pattern expecting that pattern in general on some level is just plain common sense.
Think about this. There is this room you have to go into every day. It is full of people. These people are black, white, yellow, red, brown, pink, and some in between. But they only wear red, blue, or white shirts. First trip into the room two people in blue shirts step on your foot. It hurts but you write it off as being crowded.
The next time you go in the room one different person in a blue shirts step on your foot. You write it off because it is a redhead with big boobs. But it still hurts.
Next day, more people in blue shirts stomp on your aching foot.
How many days do you need to have your foot stomped before you get very 'antsy' around anyone wearing a blue shirt? Doesn't matter if they are black, white, yellow, red, brown, pink, young, or old.
By the way. If you are pro-LEO, I am Mary Poppins.:headslap:
How do you like flying the umbrella around? Anything I have posted has been about a situation and not about being anti-LEO. I am anti-criminal. I sure as hell don't train criminals like you implied in the last couple of sentences of your last post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbler
Show me where this room is so I can visit the redhead.
I can not think of one single incident when the topic was performance of a LEO where you did not voice a negative opinion or perspective of law enforcement officers if you responded at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBronco
Not a one.
of course, I am willing to admit my mistake(s) so feel free to prove me wrong.
Unless you do not speak to your students about current events ever - at all - your negative and usually severely biased perceptions are conveyed to them.
This is the end of this pissing match from my perspective. You and I have known each other for a fairly long time and I would like to keep our relations fairly amiable. But I have a very low tolerance for having smoke blown up my ass. You know that. So the mere fact that I am bowing up at you should be a pretty clear signal that my threshold has been met.
http://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com...T-LEO-25-timesQuote:
Originally Posted by Rumbler
http://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com...in-Clean-Shoot
http://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com...uties-wounds-2
http://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com...police-officer
http://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com...good-cop-alert
http://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com...-SHERIFF-FINCH
We need a popcorn smiley
Rumbler, you should change your handle.
Could you show where you're getting this statistic, and define what it is? A quick cursory search and simple common sense indicate it is a wildly exaggerated made up statistic. That being said, maybe I'm misunderstanding you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbler
Common sense? Look at the daily arrest reports from here or any other city they are published in.
As for the data; dig for it at the sources I cited. You really do not expect Obama's lapdog Eric Holder to make such data easy to find on the DOJ site do you? The information is there. Nothing that ever shows a contrary finding to the BS an administration is perpetrating is or has ever been easy to find on the FBI site, but with diligence it can be found. The DOP data is provided in inmate demographic and number of reincarcerated inmates information.
In other words; Step #1 is to actually want to find the information you have been programmed not to want to believe.
I'm not going to debate or defend my conclusions based on information available to anyone who wants to find it further. Fraidy, I would have expected that having had a close friend brutally murdered recently by career thugs that DO NOT look like the pillsbury doughboy you would see through the programming being perpetrated on the minds of not just college students but people in general (you want proof of that you need look no further than the oval office). I am a bit disappointed to see you still dubious of something so self evident. :(
You're just not yourself when you're hungryQuote:
Originally Posted by Jafar
FBI UCR for 2012 for arrests Suburban areas by Race. That is for 49 states.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...abledatadecpdf
Here it is for cities
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...abledatadecpdf
Florida isn't in there and will require getting it from FDLE. Here it is for 1998-2012.
https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content..._age_race.aspx
Rumbler-
The plural of anecdote is not data.Quote:
Fraidy, I would have expected that having had a close friend brutally murdered recently by career thugs that DO NOT look like the pillsbury doughboy you would see through the programming being perpetrated on the minds of not just college students but people in general (you want proof of that you need look no further than the oval office). I am a bit disappointed to see you still dubious of something so self evident. :(
One of those guys has something like 9 or 10 brothers and sisters who are all successful professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.); as far as I can tell are productive members of society and his father was a nationally known minister. Should they be shot on sight because they fit the same demographic as their sociopath brother/son?
I've had a close friend murdered, but this isn't my first experience with murder and loss at the hands of evil people. I've been through this a few times now, some were black and others were white.
I'm not saying that black men aren't committing crimes at a higher rate than other demographics, but the 70% statistic is wildly exaggerative. Even if it weren't, that has nothing to do with an individual. What if we applied your logic to everything else?
Domestic dispute... arrest the man and take away his rights.
Murdered woman... send the husband to prison
woman files rape charges... he did it, label him a sex predator
I'm not saying these officers acted inappropriately, I don't have enough info on that, but the assertion that skin color should be a factor is use of force is preposterous.
Quote:
As for the data; dig for it at the sources I cited.
Does not equal citations.Quote:
That is according to the statistics of the DOJ, FBI, and BOP (bureau of prisons).
DOJ- 36.7% of jail inmates
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/jim12st.pdf
BB covered the FBI and those numbers aren't anywhere close to your assertion.
BOP- 37.2% of all inmates
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/...nmate_race.jsp
Or perhaps recognize confirmation bias that may lead you to ignore the data and come to conclusions that have no basis in fact (or are exaggerated) based on anecdotal observations.Quote:
In other words; Step #1 is to actually want to find the information you have been programmed not to want to believe.
Talk about a thread derail....lol.
To be fair, this thread went farther than most on this forum before being sent off the rails into the canyon. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Airgator0470
TruthQuote:
Originally Posted by Frady
Well... at least I hope it got some folks to thinking about OPTIONS now before confronted with a situation and getting caught flat-footed.
That it did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airgator0470
+1 for AG for starting an excelent thread.
-1 for all you thread jackers.
Dude, you have been jacking threads so long you can even feel your hands anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by crawdaddy34
Regarding active shooters, I think the biggest challenge is figuring out who is supposed to be there and who isn't. That is challenge enough in my building, but the neighboring buildings even more so. There was a bomb blast in the 2nd floor of my current building about 14 years ago that took the door off the hinges. It turned out to be the Coca Cola delivery guy. It missed one of the Naval officers by about a minute or less. The unsettling thing is that a spree shooter could be someone you know or recognize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airgator0470
First, I don't believe you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Gribble
Second, I was on topic all the way up to post 98.
Third, it's funny how much one little "t" can make such a difference.
Still want to see if someone ends up with an umbrella avatar and new screen name :flamer:Quote:
Originally Posted by crawdaddy34
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utlaw
Keep stirin that pot boy...
Yea, and I was for it before I was against it. I didn't inhale.Quote:
Originally Posted by crawdaddy34
OK then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Gribble
Glad we cleared that up...
:thinking:
:joint: ahhhhh yeah right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Gribble
" the assertion that skin color should be a factor is use of force "
Funny, I thought I was making a case for being on extra high alert. Having reason to strongly suspect. Oh well. Wouldn't be the first time I learned I had no idea what I meant from an on-line fourm. Heck remember that was how I learned I was guilty of treason on TGF!
Oh, and David, even the Huffington Post says it is in excess of 50%.
The NAACP says 1 million out of 2.3 million
USA Today says by age 23 OVER HALF of all black males have been arrested.
That is three notoriously liberal "minded" sources. Two out of three places the number OVER HALF.
That was one quick search on Google. Like I have said; step #1 is wanting to see.
I gotta go now. I need to find a mary poppins avatar . . .
It IS what I do:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by crawdaddy34
So you chose to ignore the links to the sources you previously "cited" showing your numbers were made up/wildly exaggerated and now have three new vague sources to support your position?Quote:
That was one quick search on Google. Like I have said; step #1 is wanting to see.
This is a great strategy to never have to change your mind about anything eh? :moon::D
Quote:
Originally Posted by crawdaddy34
If you stir long enough sometimes it turns to gravy.....note the big guy's new avatar :goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frady
No David, I am not going to dig out the information again. I know what it says.
I quoted three bleeding heart liberal sources that say AT WORST the number I quoted is SLIGHTLY high.
You believe what you want to believe. I believe that when my ass is on the line I am paying extra special attention to what *I KNOW* poses the greatest potential for my untimely demise. If that makes me a racist, if that makes me a bigot, if that makes me a shit eating ass hole, I really couldn't care less. I WILL win the fight by being the most aggressive with the least hesitation.
If that philosophy don't work for you, I am OK with that. It makes me feel bad because I like you and your wife a lot, but I respect your right to make your own decision(s).
I generally use the FBI UCR and FDLE statistics for various crime data as well as murders by weapon type because they go back for quite a ways. The problem with places like Huff Po is they get data from irregular sources and they tend to push Social Justice and they want said numbers to look out of alignment. At the end of the day, those are descriptive statistics and not inferential or predictive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbler
Deputy Pine was murdered by an Asian Decent looking guy although is g.f. (Pugh) is black. Deputy German was murdered by an 18 y.o. white kid looking punk accompanied by a 17 y.o. white girl. It is unclear if the 17 yo girl was an accomplice or just murdered. Pugh was part of the robbing and stealing and hope the charge her with murder 1 with special circumstances.
I'm sure you know this, but murder is the ONLY crime remotely close to being accurately reported on the UCR, and FDLE statistics are simply the Florida UCR stats aren't they? I want nothing to do with the debate, I simply don't want anybody to think that any of the statistics cited here (and I mean everyone) are to be taken seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBronco
Florida doesn't submit data to the FBI UCR which is why I included a separate link. That said, if the FBI UCR data aren't accurate, do you thing the Puffington Compost et al. are going to be better? The WANT high numbers to push their social justice agenda. That said, do you have a better set of data than the FBI UCR? I know they are far from perfect, but don't know another set that is compiled annually for as long as those to organizations. I can tell you right now that the Gun Ban Lobby doesn't like them because it allows to break out the murder data by handguns, long guns, knives, fists/feet etc. and it breaks up their average of 30,000 gun deaths a year into perspective given roughly half of those are suicide. Plus, it gives a number for justifiable police shootings and citizen shootings (except for Florida which is tabulated by FDLE).Quote:
Originally Posted by cceveland
I agree with your last post whole heartly RUMBLER!