worthwhile or a waste of time practices.

Na, naw, naw; I hear you thinking "but wait! If the outside of the case neck is fully supported in the die how can that be?!?"

Two reasons, in no particular order:

* - Your inner stem (the part that goes inside the case) flexes. After all the case neck is supported on the outside by the dagum hunk of steel that is the die. That makes the inner stem the weak link.

* - If the "outside" of the die that supports the case neck was a ".000000" fit you would either not be able to get the case in or out of it without one heck of a substantial amount of force.

:cool:

And if the necks were uniform, and had a reduced diameter of 0.0005 to 0.001 that dadgum expander ball would not exert as much pressure inside the neck coming out of the die ( where it is not supported)

Remember, I was the guy having problems bending stems in my dies when decapping mil brass...
So I went to decapping as a separate step..

I'm aware of the stress that small diameter sizing stem gets..even lubed with a carbide ball on it :)

I just found this blog, and he discusses runout dimensions in relation to 600 yard groups in highpower..
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/bullet_runout.html

So it looks like from 0.001 to 0.003 would be good..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Airgator0470

How does MUCH SOFTER copper and/or lead damage EXTREMELY HARD ORDNANCE GRADE STEEL? Something sounds odd here... people shoot heavily damaged pulls all the time... they suck past 100 yards accuracy wise but they don't damage anything.

Bullets self-center as the enter they rifling so it's no big deal (run out) except in the accuracy department. I'd like more info on barrel type, bullet type, and just how much run out we are talking about. For a bullet to have severe enough run out it can be detected easily by eye... he should have had his ass kicked down the mountain for not checking his ammo knowing a long shot was in the mix.

Mapper... many of the things you have listed there MAY help... but to a discernible degree, who knows... only way to tell is your own testing. We discussed this in the reloading class... for me some of the tasks did not result in marked improvement so for the time cost/benefit, I found it not worth the effort.

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Like my preface said, not sure how the damage was done but the barrel was pulled and had major damage just outside the throat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jafar

Like my preface said, not sure how the damage was done but the barrel was pulled and had major damage just outside the throat.

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Perhaps flame cutting?

Obviously I have absolutely no way of knowing what damaged the barrel.

But based on my own experience I have seen water cut steel, break concrete, bring down structures designed to hold tons and tons and tons of weight. My point being; even though lead is much softer than barrel steel, it can still damage it.
Dang. Mythbusters exploded a barrel by sticking a "finger" in it. :p

To cover some of the things you've asked, and I'll throw my "I'm no expert but have been reloading and researching techniques a while" disclaimer here, I'd say flash hole deburring and annealing combined with good dies (redding is good, I like my Forster seater with sliding sleeve) would get you squared away. Assuming premium brass, neck turning will just piss you off *unless you have a very tight chamber that needs the necks turned*, I had a hornady neck turner and an rcbs concentricity gauge, sold them both. K&M gets great reviews if you want to explore neck turning though. Check the reloading section on snipershide, there are stickyv threads at the top detailing lots of this, also if you're not on accurateshooter.com join there too. Lots of great references
I use an rcbs case prep center with a vld neck chamfer, primer pocket uniformer, and rcbs flash hole deburring tool (unscrew the handle and it fits the case prep center).
As with anything you can invest more money or time into it, you just have to decide how far you want to go down the hole and which you'd rather invest.

Thanks for the input...

Dies are redding standard non bushing full length,
have the micrometer seaters but not used them yet. Others are rcbs

Brass is lc..or sorted by headstamp commercial.
I do have some new lapua and new lc brass as well as new federal

Have rcbs prep center so flash hole deburring would not be tedious..I don't do it at this time though.
I do have hornady primer pocket uniformers that could be run in prep center..

I Don't turn necks at this time but have seen k&m as well as 21st century turning tools..
looks like a PIA, but with a power screwdriver still doable, if it provides meaningful results.

I Don't have a concentricity guage but the neco would be on the short list for what it does. Followed by sinclair

Standard dies and brass work for me so I haven't had to turn necks due to tight chambers

I have'nt annealled yet but have seen some info on using the tempalac and a rotating socket, or in time to a metronome..
I suspect I will have to do this more for the brass that is hard(er) to find than common calibers and I have less of it as well as it is being pushed harder, but it will still apply to other calibers.

When do you anneal is it every x number of firings, or dependendent on how hard you push them.

I'll check out accurateshooter and the hide..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mapper

Brass is lc..or sorted by headstamp commercial.
I do have some new lapua and new lc brass as well as new federal

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If you want tiny groups consistently without neck turning stick to the lapua, I can't comment on LC neck wall variations, perhaps someone else can?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mapper

Have rcbs prep center so flash hole deburring would not be tedious..I don't do it at this time though.
I do have hornady primer pocket uniformers that could be run in prep center..

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I became a believer in flash hole deburring when I kept chasing big velocity spreads working up a subsonic 223 load. deburring flash holes got them tightened up, primer can ignite evenly. You'll be amazed at the shavings after doing it and it's a one-time thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mapper

I Don't turn necks at this time but have seen k&m as well as 21st century turning tools..
looks like a PIA, but with a power screwdriver still doable, if it provides meaningful results.

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tell me when you're going to do it, I'll drink an extra beer or 3 for ya

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mapper

I Don't have a concentricity guage but the neco would be on the short list for what it does. Followed by sinclair

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neco gets great reviews, so does Hornady actually

Standard dies and brass work for me so I haven't had to turn necks due to tight chambers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mapper

I have'nt annealled yet but have seen some info on using the tempalac and a rotating socket, or in time to a metronome..
I suspect I will have to do this more for the brass that is hard(er) to find than common calibers and I have less of it as well as it is being pushed harder, but it will still apply to other calibers.

When do you anneal is it every x number of firings, or dependendent on how hard you push them.

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If you're going for tiny groups anneal every time, it's not about brass life as much as it's about consistent neck tension. I have been meaning to work on an annealing setup but have too many other projects going on, plenty of videos on it, have fun!

Thanks...
So to properly turn necks takes beer while listening to ac/dc singing have a drink on me. :cheers:


See, that is the kind of advanced practices I was asking about. :yourock:

I have the back in black album/cd, but never considered it reloading equipment.. now I know :)