I don't think I could ever forgive or live with myself if I had the ability to take the fight to the enemy and didn't. Of course, people value HONOR and COURAGE differently.
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I don't think I could ever forgive or live with myself if I had the ability to take the fight to the enemy and didn't. Of course, people value HONOR and COURAGE differently.
Signal-0 Productions Firearms Training... for the working man.
Avoid the situation. This started with retreating to the car at your workplace to get your gun and go back in. I work in a courthouse where at anytime between Bailiffs (LCSO) and various city, state and county and federal police are in and out of all day. To believe that I can grab my legally stowed gun and go back into the building to win the gunfight is something I think is not within reason.Originally Posted by Rumbler
What is hard to believe is that it is plausible to believe that one would believe they could still get in front of a bad guys OODA loop were they to do a risk/benefit assessment prior to acting. . . . . did that make sense? I think you know what I mean . . . . if you know what an OODA loop is and how it works in relation to a gunfight.
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.
What about the mall? Or the grocery store? Or the car dealership?
I'd rather be lucky than good, but I'd rather KNOW I'm good than HOPE to get lucky.
No idea. In all of those places I would not retreat to my car to retrieve a firearm, I would already have it.
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.
Ah, but see the question is about working in a gun free zone. In this particular scenario, your firearm is not on or about your person. It's a sprint to the parking lot and back.
And to comment on the Airman in Pasco County, he used a firearm to defend against a situation (a bar brawl) where deadly force was not immediately apparent. An active SHOOTER scenario is much, much different.
I can't possibly fathom a lawyer, juror or basic human being worth a damn that would not count the lives saved vs any possible perceived violation of the law.
“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”
― Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War
“Three of the greatest failings, want of sense, of courage, or of vigilance.”
― Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War
Rumbler- WTF? On what basis was your friend convicted?
“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”
― Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War
“Three of the greatest failings, want of sense, of courage, or of vigilance.”
― Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War
Would a jury even know about the lives saved? Would it be admissible?
Last edited by Dale Gribble; March 16th, 2014 at 11:02 PM.
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.
Bob, (rumber, oscarmike, 317, etc) I am glad their are people like you around. I wish I could feel the same way. However I'm not going to put up a bullshit hero screen that so many gun owners are willing to do. I have big reservations about doing the right thing outside of my family or friends. I carry a gun, I have a CWP, but I am not a cop, and I don't have shit behind me if I do my best and shit goes sideways.
Look at the total destruction around Zimmerman's life. I do not want and can not afford the same visited upon my house.
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.
That is what I am trying to get at, Dale. Gunfights are often won or lost in fractions of a second. Innocents are killed in fractions of a second.
My point is that one must be as certain as they can possibly be - they must have the mental commitment to act - prior to an incident. That relates directly to the OODA loop.
When a bad guy posing a lethal threat is encountered they are either at "A" or waiting on "A". Given everything a human being does from brushing their teeth to participating in a lethal encounter requires OODA, being at "D" or earlier puts you behind the threat.
I have never had to end a threat confronting innocents. But I know as surely as I know my own name I could not tolerate spending the rest of my days wondering if I could have saved just one by acting instead of exiting.
"Sheepdogs". That has come up recently, at the moment I do not recall if it was in this thread or another. But I know how to identify one.
On September 11th, 2001. On airliners over PA and DC. The sheepdogs said without hesitation: "God I wish I could have been there, maybe I could have made a difference." The not a sheepdogs said, "Thank God I was not on those airplanes."
I'd rather be lucky than good, but I'd rather KNOW I'm good than HOPE to get lucky.
Dale, no that type of information would not be admissible. But jurors are humans. The thought would cross their minds whether mentioned or not. That's the same reason why Zimmerman was brought to trial even with a lack of substantiating evidence. The human element, the emotional element...
“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”
― Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War
“Three of the greatest failings, want of sense, of courage, or of vigilance.”
― Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War
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