ACTICVE SHOOTER TRAINING COMPLETED

[Airgator0470]

Bob, (rumber, oscarmike, 317, etc) I am glad their are people like you around. I wish I could feel the same way. However I'm not going to put up a bullshit hero screen that so many gun owners are willing to do. I have big reservations about doing the right thing outside of my family or friends. I carry a gun, I have a CWP, but I am not a cop, and I don't have shit behind me if I do my best and shit goes sideways.

Look at the total destruction around Zimmerman's life. I do not want and can not afford the same visited upon my house.

I think comparing a case like Zimmerman to a case involving confronting an active shooter (the topic of this debate) is an APPLES vs. ORANGES thing.

Look man... you HAVE A RIGHT to your opinions, I'm NOT here to judge you either way. We (people) are all different in our own way(s). No keyboard bravado here... I just don't think I'd feel good about myself if I COULD do something but CHOSE not to.

[DaveW]

I firmly understand and respect both sides of this conversation. I don't need anymore help losing sleep and knowing innocents fell on my watch, but I also disdain the milktose loafer wearing panty waists that spent their time playing golf and fantasy football rather than being at the range and being capable of protecting them and theirs.

That being said, I think I offer a compromise; I carry a weapon, and or the means to protect myself, everywhere I go.

That includes gun free zones. Every place I see a sign that says "no firearms" I walk right by it as if I never saw it. Is it breaking the law? You betcha. Do I give a fuck? Absolutely not.

In this manner I can protect myself by immediately removing the threat and evacuating with the innocents at the same time. "But that's buh-buh-breaking the law," you say. So is going to your vehicle, getting a gun, and going back in. Back at square one, minus the loss of operational tempo.

I am not committing suicide for anyone by going back in and being gunned down the responding police. Love you guys, mean it, but we know exactly what the fuck will happen when your dicks get hard and the MP5's come out of the cases.

Thats my compromise and the boundaries of my participation. I'm no hero, but I'm no coward either.

Quintessential Labrador. Not a sheepdog, definitely not a wolf or a sheep, and ready for the fight if it comes your way. If not a sheepdog, I consider it every mans duty to at least train and aspire to be the Lab.

[Evil_McNasty]

"but I also disdain the milktose loafer wearing panty waists that spent their time playing golf and fantasy football"
Beautiful god damn quote!!! Give this man a candy bar.

I would go back in if intelligently and tactically it would make a difference. If I am plain clothes and I have a Glock 26, but Mr Bad guy has a fully auto AK and body armor, then my effectiveness is likely quite low. But maybe not, if I know the building well and know of a sound entry point that could probably get me near to his position while providing good cover........yeah I am going back in. This would be right after I made a phone call to dispatch and explained everything I knew about the situation and that I would be entering the east side of the building, wearing a red shirt, etc..........

Now if people are still pouring out and little old ladies are getting trampled on in the door ways, I am going to help them first. There are so many situational variables that saying exactly what you would do in that moment is near impossible. But I will say that every person who is not a panty waist should do whatever they can to improve the situation for maximum effect. That may be gunning him down, that may be rushing shocked people towards a door, that may be staying on the phone and giving the only available live updates to dispatch, hell....that may be driving your car into the front door and running the guy over. Who knows. Just don't be a coward.

[0utlaw]

Just don't be a coward.

Yep, that summed it up for me.

[crawdaddy34]

The part of this I'm stuck on is calling 911 and telling them that you are re-entering.

Guaranteed they will tell you not to.

If you do it anyway, and survive the incident, there is a HIGH probability of you landing in some pretty deep do-do...

[Airgator0470]

I am not committing suicide for anyone by going back in and being gunned down the responding police. Love you guys, mean it, but we know exactly what the fuck will happen when your dicks get hard and the MP5's come out of the cases.

MP5's.....? That's so 1980's... lol

[Rumbler]

No problem, CrawPawPaw.

That is when you provide proof you have the professional training necessary in the mind of a reasonable person to conclude there was a realistic possibility your rentering stood a larger probability preserving innocents lives.

The part of this I'm stuck on is calling 911 and telling them that you are re-entering.

Guaranteed they will tell you not to.

If you do it anyway, and survive the incident, there is a HIGH probability of you landing in some pretty deep do-do...

[crawdaddy34]

AG - You just went thru the training...

Isn't current SOP to bypass the wounded and actively seek out, engage, and neutralize the bad guy?

[Frady]

No problem, CrawPawPaw.

That is when you provide proof you have the professional training necessary in the mind of a reasonable person to conclude there was a realistic possibility your rentering stood a larger probability preserving innocents lives.

And it's just that simple right?




Someone gave me a really good perspective on whether to make that choice to get involved or not. Imagine for a moment one of the people we're talking about saving developed a curable form of cancer but they had no money and just needed $20k to live. Would you write them a check for their medications? If no, then why are you so eager to run into that situation with a gun?

While not quite apples to apples, I think it's a great analogy for deciding whether or not to get involved. In all but the best of scenarios you're going to need to hire legal council and your name may get drug through the mud (ie: Zimmerman) before you finally get clear of all the legal hurdles. By the time you factor in attorney fees, lost wages, all the possible negative attention you'll receive and stress $20k might not even come close to covering it.

I have had two instances in my life of intervening on behalf of an unknown woman getting smacked around only to have the crazy bitch come swinging at me when things went sideways. How thankful do you think the masses will be for your actions? Remember, these are the same people that suspend teenagers who step in to defend others being bullied for fighting.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take action in any scenario, but considering all the problems (LEO shooting you, legal troubles, thankless masses, etc.) I'd take a moment to really think about it before taking action.

[Airgator0470]

AG - You just went thru the training...

Isn't current SOP to bypass the wounded and actively seek out, engage, and neutralize the bad guy?

Yes.