ACTICVE SHOOTER TRAINING COMPLETED

[crawdaddy34]

Yes.

So you roll on an active shooter call, actively seek out someone with a gun, and neutralize the threat by whatever means necessary...

If it so happens that an armed citizen that is trying to help is the first person you see, what's your reaction?

I’m not trying to put you on the spot here AG. Just curious as to how this works out from a LEO perspective…

[Airgator0470]

So you roll on an active shooter call, actively seek out someone with a gun, and neutralize the threat by whatever means necessary...

If it so happens that an armed citizen that is trying to help is the first person you see, what's your reaction?

I’m not trying to put you on the spot here AG. Just curious as to how this works out from a LEO perspective…

I'm unaware of any LAW or AGENCY POLICY that would PROHIBIT me from asking for help or accepting offers for help... even from ARMED CITIZENS. In fact, by statutory law, refusing a LAWFUL request for help is a violation of FSS 843.06.

I'm sure we will need an entirely new thread to debate the merits of such a topic...

If, UNDER THE RIGHT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES, I encountered an armed citizen who appeared to be capable of helping until more "OFFICIAL" help arrived, I don't think I'd turn the help down. On the other hand, if an elderly citizen who was shaking uncontrollably offered help, I think I'd help them just go to safety.

Now... this thread ought to get really interesting...

[crawdaddy34]

I'm unaware of any LAW or AGENCY POLICY that would PROHIBIT me from asking for help or accepting offers for help... even from ARMED CITIZENS. In fact, by statutory law, refusing a LAWFUL request for help is a violation of FSS 843.06.

I'm sure we will need an entirely new thread to debate the merits of such a topic...

If, UNDER THE RIGHT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES, I encountered an armed citizen who appeared to be capable of helping until more "OFFICIAL" help arrived, I don't think I'd turn the help down. On the other hand, if an elderly citizen who was shaking uncontrollably offered help, I think I'd help them just go to safety.

Now... this thread ought to get really interesting...

Well you certinly pulled a quick left turn there, didn't you! LOL.

What I was getting at was what would you do if you encountered a man with a gun after you got a call about a man with a gun... Or, if you would prefer, what do I NEED TO DO, to keep you from shooting me.

See what I'm getting at here?

And I'm kind of suprized that there ISN't a law prohibiting that... I imagine that would open up an agency for ALL SORTS of liability if you ask me to help clear a building and shit goes sideways because of something I did/didn't do/did wrong...

[DaveW]

About a year ago I took a class up here in Ky called Surviving Lethal Encounters, here is the link instead of a description: http://aimperfect.com/events/2014/2/...nters-workshop It's taught by Jim Higginbotham and a former high up State Prosecutor for the state of Kentucky. Much of what is being discussed in this thread is covered in the class and is designed for civilians. Jim is a very interesting guy that ran in the same circles and on occasion worked with Jeff Cooper. Google Jim's name, he has some impressive shooting vid's and some really good articles. Anyway, if there seems to be enough interest, I'll run over there (about 10 min away) and see if he would be willing to come to Talon and do the class. I'm sure it would cost more than the $100 it is up here but even at double that it would still be worth it.

[crawdaddy34]

and no one wants to shoot a naked guy.

That depends on why he's naked brother....

Remember the thread about the kid in the daughters bed???

[DaveW]

If I were to call dispatch and let them know what I was about to do, I would tell them I was going to be naked and then strip down and run in. There might be two guys in there with red shirts on, but an exponentially higher chance that I'm the only nude gunman inside.

and no one wants to shoot a naked guy.

Sorry but I had to click the disapprove button, only because that was an image that I did not need in my head. I hope I'm not scarred for life.

[Airgator0470]

Well you certinly pulled a quick left turn there, didn't you! LOL.

What I was getting at was what would you do if you encountered a man with a gun after you got a call about a man with a gun... Or, if you would prefer, what do I NEED TO DO, to keep you from shooting me.

See what I'm getting at here?

And I'm kind of suprized that there ISN't a law prohibiting that... I imagine that would open up an agency for ALL SORTS of liability if you ask me to help clear a building and shit goes sideways because of something I did/didn't do/did wrong...

Too many variables to give a straight answer... obviously I'd have to make a determination YOU are not the guy I'm looking for. If you see or hear LEO coming.... disarm, hold your hands high, and DO WHAT EVER YOU ARE TOLD WITHOUT DELAY. Face away from approaching officers, make no sudden movements.

Don't worry... I don't think cops will be asking for help because of what you mentioned.

[crawdaddy34]

Too many variables to give a straight answer... obviously I'd have to make a determination YOU are not the guy I'm looking for. If you see or hear LEO coming.... disarm, hold your hands high, and DO WHAT EVER YOU ARE TOLD WITHOUT DELAY. Face away from approaching officers, make no sudden movements.

Don't worry... I don't think cops will be asking for help because of what you mentioned.

Which is exactly the catch-22 I thought we would end up at...


SEEING officers approaching is one thing. In that case, I'm cool with all of the above.

But If I know that there is a guy wandering around in here with a gun, looking to shoot people, and all of the sudden someone behind me tells me to drop my gun and put my hands up, I'm gonna want to take a peak and see WHO exactly that is. If he's done up in full tactical gear with six of his buddies stacked off his left shoulder, all is good. If it's one crazy sumbitch with a rifle pointed at me, well I'm probably already screwed, but in an effort to save my own life, or at least take that fucker with me, me and my weapon need to be QUICKLY moving in a lateral fashion AND on the way to acquiring a target the SECOND he starts speaking... Which will get you shot at if it is LEO's...

So...
Option 1 is stand still and hope it's not the bad guy.
Option 2 is move and hope it's not the cops.





SIDE BAR - What's the rational for "Face away from approaching officers"?

[Evil_McNasty]

If I were to call dispatch and let them know what I was about to do, I would tell them I was going to be naked and then strip down and run in. There might be two guys in there with red shirts on, but an exponentially higher chance that I'm the only nude gunman inside.

and no one wants to shoot a naked guy.

Gurkha style. That might actually work.

[DaveW]

1911+beard+tea bag = dead bad guy

Redemption is yours Sir.