CCGF - Ballistics Testing Event

[Rumbler]

Stand By For NEWS! ;D ;D


Starting to pull together details on this but thanks to the generosity of Talon2 we will have access to ballistics gelatin, HD camera(s) and chronograph(s) for the purpose of doing some first hand in-person ballistics testing.


As you can imagine to make this truly useful testing and not just a fun event (it will be a TON of fun by default if you ask me!) there are a whole lot of details to work out besides just when and where.

So be patient, but please know that at this point I'm thinking "in 30-days or less". If I were you, I'd start acquiring a few rounds of something you really feel a need to test. . . . to avoid duplication you may even want to post in this thread what YOU are intending to bring so we do not wind up with 50,000 rounds of 9mm and .380 hardball ammunition. ;)

[Wizard]

Mike, I'd like volunteer my time and any $$$ that may be needed to make this happen.
Just let me know.

[Rumbler]

Hey. Y'all don't forget about this. ;)




As I'm not having much luck finding a volunteer to let us set up all the junk in their backyard and shoot a bunch, it looks like it is time for plan "b". Plan "b" stands for "bucks".


I'm pretty sure if it was coordinated with them Otter Creek would let us do this on a Saturday. But it may very well cost everyone not a member of OC $10.00 for the day.


I had to take my bulldog to the Doctor this morning (Saturday) to get a new license plate - renew his registration. Saturday is my shooting day, so that means I didn't go down there today. :( I will see if they would be receptive to the idea next Saturday. If I don't shoot at least every two weeks, I get all fidgity. ;)

[Wizard]

Mike, you may want to go with coonbottom.
It's still $10.00 per person and if we go before 2pm we can have to entire range to ourselves.

[Rumbler]

Mike, you may want to go with coonbottom.
It's still $10.00 per person and if we go before 2pm we can have to entire range to ourselves.





I'm liking that idea. Remember that I'm old. I usually get up early. I am perfectly OK with the idea of taking a nap at home by 2:00PM. It is one of the privileges of age that I enjoy quite a lot. 8)




Besides, from where I'm sitting I am right about in the middle between coonbottom and otter creek so both of them are way too dang far away.




I also need to look into how this jello stuff works. I know you put the chunks in da pan and melt them into one big piece, which you then blow to bits again. . . and again, and again.


But I have no idea how long that "reconstitution process" takes. I'm betting it works a lot like jello except that it will set at room temperature. Anyway, heating melts it all together and then it has to cool off before reuse.




. . . that may take a while, ya know. http://www.pic4ever.com/images/www_MyEmoticons_com__fishing.gif

[Wizard]

I hear ya.

If its any help, coonbottom has a refrigerator and a comfy sofa. http://emotloader.hu/emoticons/sleep/Dormir_42%20-%20emotloader.hu.gif

[Rumbler]

Oh man, I'm all about sofas. http://www.pic4ever.com/images/Bananeyessss.gif

[Rumbler]

Otay. I've read the documentation on Perma-Gel (http://www.perma-gel.com/) .


Time is an issue. It takes hours and hours to reconstitute this product into ready to shoot blocks. Like eight. Absolute minimum of eight - that is taking where they say "8-12 hours" as 8.


So, in practical terms we will have two blocks of gel to shoot. Whether they needed to be arranged so that one shot hits two blocks will very much depend on the power of the cartridge, but I'm thinking most will need two blocks to stop them.


I think that is very workable, but we might be smart to actually plan what weapons and loads are tested to get the most mileage out of the jello and the most data too.

[jonastio]

So, we going anywhere with this? This sounds like fun.

[Rumbler]

Most definitely!


Things have been happening in the background.




Had to do some learning about the medium and as it turns out that is really the "catch". It takes approximately 18 hours to reconstute it. :(


In practical terms, that means we can shoot the gel blocks until they are shot up one time in one day.


So, this is a go. And I believe if we plan well we can test a fairly broad spectrum of ammo, but we need to figure out some . . . I hate to say it . . "ammo protocol" to get the maximum use from it in one day.


Which is hugely better than old fashioned ballistics gel. That stuff is a just plain pain in the butt to use, even once.


But it also means this is more complicated than everyone just getting together and shooting the crap out of it with whatever they get the notion to "test".

[talon2]

Having shot a bunch of ballistic gel in the past I can say with a good amount of confidence that shooting ball ammo is a waist of time. It will punch a hole all the way through and keep going. So that eliminates ball. Gold Dot, Ranger Talon, Bonded hydro shock, & Golden Saber all perform about the same. So with that in mind I would suggest we shooting a little of that stuff and maybe some unknowns and hand loads. I have some extreme shocks that were donated by The Gun Vault to test and can bring Gold Dots and Rangers in various calibers. We will need a small table or some plywood and saw horses (maybe better), and a measuring tape and some old denim fabric or mattress ticking. I have the HD video camera.

[Rumbler]

I've got a small table, and sawhorses and plywood. And several pairs of jeans I can no longer get into (it is amazing how jeans shrink over time!).


I also have some unusual hand loads; .38/357 silhouette bullets (brass jacketed, truncated cone, exposed core (lead)). Might be interesting to see how they perform at .38, .38"+P" and .357 velocities.


I'd also love to see the "glaser safety slug" and "extreme shock" ammo performance in real life so we can finally but the hype of that behind us well informed individuals ;) Anyone got some of either? If not, I will acquire some, that is not a problem

[talon2]

I have the extreme shocks thanks to Ray, also have some Hornady Critical defense, some power ball and some corbon GTX lead free.

[oneton]

i have some hst in various calibers.also have some extreme shock 'air marshall' could try.

when is this happening?

[Rumbler]

i have some hst in various calibers.also have some extreme shock 'air marshall' could try.

when is this happening?





It sounds like establishing that is the next step. Lemme talk with JD and get some idea of his window(s) of opportunity. :)

[Rail Driver]

I'd like to see Winchester PDX1 in 12ga tested if possible. That's what I load my HD 12ga with, and wouldn't mind some confirmation (or even a slight implication) that it might be better than standard buck or slug loads. I don't know if I'll be able to come to the actual test (depends on the date and time), but I'd be happy to donate a couple rounds to test with.

[Wizard]

I'd like to see Winchester PDX1 in 12ga tested if possible. That's what I load my HD 12ga with, and wouldn't mind some confirmation (or even a slight implication) that it might be better than standard buck or slug loads. I don't know if I'll be able to come to the actual test (depends on the date and time), but I'd be happy to donate a couple rounds to test with.


+1

I'd like to get some results on the PDX1 as well.


I'll cook up some Knoxx if it will help out, just let me know if you need extra gel.

[Rumbler]

I'll cook up some Knoxx if it will help out, just let me know if you need extra gel.





Yes, please!


We need a few blocks about 12"x12"x36". If you make three, that should only be about 18,963 boxes of knoxx to get the right consistency according to my calculator. ;D :o ;)

[Wizard]

I'll cook up some Knoxx if it will help out, just let me know if you need extra gel.





Yes, please!


We need a few blocks about 12"x12"x36". If you make three, that should only be about 18,963 boxes of knoxx to get the right consistency according to my calculator. ;D :o ;)





12x12x36 is ~ 30 gallons, and at the ratio of 1lb of Knox per gallon, my calculations boil down to only 1,920 4oz. packets per block.
Multiplied by 3...5760 4oz packets. I can do that, no problem.
http://im-smiley.com/imgs/school/chemistry.gif

[Rail Driver]

12x12x36 is ~ 30 gallons, and at the ratio of 1lb of Knox per gallon, my calculations boil down to only 1,920 4oz. packets per block.
Multiplied by 3...5760 4oz packets. I can do that, no problem.
http://im-smiley.com/imgs/school/chemistry.gif


http://www.amazon.com/Knox-Original-Gelatin-Envelopes-Unflavored/dp/tags-on-product/B000E1BLT4

48oz = ~$70 plus shipping...
48oz = 3lb x 10= 480oz (30lbs per block @ 1lb per gallon) = $700 x 3 blocks = $2100

Even with a crazy bulk or distributor discount, unless you get the stuff for free, it's cheaper to donate the cash to buy more of the re-usable stuff at $170 per block

[Rumbler]

. . . I was just kidding. :-[




I knew it would be prohibitively expensive. And a huge pain in the butt to transport and keep cool until use, too. Well, you know; unless someone has a spare refrigerated truck sitting around. ;)

[Wizard]

I hear ya.

In the past, I've lost most of my gel to bacterial and fungal contamination probably secondary to improper refrigeration. Lately I have been experimenting with using ketoconazole and penicillin in the mix, but I think that the reheating process destroys the protective properties.

[jonastio]

If you get the 1lb cans instead of the individual packets, you still run around the same as the reusable stuff.

And that's food-grade gelatin. There's probably cheaper sources out there.

[Rumbler]

BIG NEWS!!

Frank Murphy of T&F Firearms

has been kind enough to offer the use of his personal range for our event.

;D http://www.pic4ever.com/images/49lpmxx.gif ;D http://www.pic4ever.com/images/49lpmxx.gif

[Rail Driver]

I'd like to see Winchester PDX1 in 12ga tested if possible.


I sold the shotgun and the ammo went with it, so regretfully I can no longer supply any PDX1 for testing.

[BlueBronco]

Having shot a bunch of ballistic gel in the past I can say with a good amount of confidence that shooting ball ammo is a waist of time. It will punch a hole all the way through and keep going. So that eliminates ball. Gold Dot, Ranger Talon, Bonded hydro shock, & Golden Saber all perform about the same. So with that in mind I would suggest we shooting a little of that stuff and maybe some unknowns and hand loads. I have some extreme shocks that were donated by The Gun Vault to test and can bring Gold Dots and Rangers in various calibers. We will need a small table or some plywood and saw horses (maybe better), and a measuring tape and some old denim fabric or mattress ticking. I have the HD video camera.


I know this is an old post, but what about some of the Buffalo Bore .380?

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=127

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=128

[Rumbler]

Yeah. Whatever happened to this? I thought you guys wanted to get together and do some 'chootin. :o






;) ;)

[wheelman]

i am still game