Newbie reloading questions

[NJC]

I am thinking I might start to reload in .40 and .45 as I want to shoot more.

Other than Brass, powder, primers and projos what I am looking to establish a list of EVERYTHING I need.

I have been told dillon is the way to go, but the initial outlay for something I am not sure about is too much. I figure that if in 12 months I am still reloading I will upgrade.

I know the difference between single stage and progressive and with the volume I will be reloading, have no strong opinions either way.

Is there a Kit I can buy that has everything that I just add dies to, assemble and start reloading ? If so please point me in the direction.

thanks


NJC

[SB]

I have been thinking of actually downgrading back to a lee classic turret press. Caliber changes are really easy. Fairly fast, just takes a little longer.
Get one of their kits, a good scale, dies, tumbler, media separator, couple of manuals.
Not too much besides that to get started.

[Rumbler]

I am thinking I might start to reload in .40 and .45 as I want to shoot more.

Defining "more" a little better would really help in terms of making appropriate suggestions.

"More" like 500 rounds a month, or a week? 1000 rounds? . . . <-- see what I mean?

Several companies make "kits" that contain scales, or powder measures, tools, etc. But some are far better tailored to small quantity reloading ("500 per month") and some for large quantity reloading.

Same hold true for the presses. Some are perfectly fine for "500 a month" and some are completely inadequate if you plan to reload "500 per week".

[AB]

Come by the house and I'll run you through the basics of reloading on my 650. I promise the big check you write for one is worth every penny!

I learned a long time ago to go big early. I have regretted it every time I failed to do so. If you don't want to get a 650, the 550 is a solid machine as well.

[Rumbler]

Darned nice of AB to make that offer! . . and he is right as usual.

In the FWIW department, NJC you still have a standing open invitation to come check out our reloading facilities. Everything from single stages to XL650 and even a 550B and all the bells and whistles (tools) to load one cartridge at a time, or 500 an hour.

[Dale Gribble]

If you are only doing pistol stuff, a used Dillon Square Deal B would seeming be a good deal.

[JMW4570]

If you are only doing pistol stuff, a used Dillon Square Deal B would seeming be a good deal.

The Square Deal is a heck of a little machine and mine just got from Dillon from its 17 year checkup. Really solid for pumping out pistol calibers up to 45 acp - I would not recommend it for 44 mag or 45 colt though, resizing those cases is a strain on those machines. But for 380, 9, 40, and 45, its the little engine that could. For high volume pistol and rifle, the 650 is an animal.

[NJC]

So would a SDB Be sufficient for maybe 500 rounds a month initially. With another set of dies?

AB and RUMBLER
i appreciate it. Still working on thr 262 mod1 project by the way.
I know i would like and appreciate a 650 or 550 but am trying to save some pain on initial investment..
if i can buy a kit and get loading in both calibers for the cost of a 550 that would be great.

I am not loooking to produce match grade ammo. Simply a decent quality practice ammo that i can affordably shoot in a higher quantity.
I have an idea that i would have no problem selling a used press they seem to go pretty quick on here.

SB yeah i talk to as many guys who reload with a lee press as reload with a dillon. I have seen dillons and they are well made. I have also seen lamborghinis and can admire them also.

[seadog]

So would a SDB Be sufficient for maybe 500 rounds a month initially. With another set of dies?

AB and RUMBLER
i appreciate it. Still working on thr 262 mod1 project by the way.
I know i would like and appreciate a 650 or 550 but am trying to save some pain on initial investment..
if i can buy a kit and get loading in both calibers for the cost of a 550 that would be great.

I am not loooking to produce match grade ammo. Simply a decent quality practice ammo that i can affordably shoot in a higher quantity.
I have an idea that i would have no problem selling a used press they seem to go pretty quick on here.

SB yeah i talk to as many guys who reload with a lee press as reload with a dillon. I have seen dillons and they are well made. I have also seen lamborghinis and can admire them also.

I have a dillon 1050 so I load a shitload of rounds but when I first started out I used a single stage press.
By using a single stage I was able to take my time and load accurately and slowly to get the process down. Then I moved up to a progressive press where things get complicated and not so nice for the beginner.

Just my 2 cents.

[Rumbler]

I gotta backup the SDB idea. 500 RPM would be a cakewalk for it.

Additionally, you will want;

* - A brass case cleaner of some type. Whole 'nother can of worms to open there, but know that the majority of folks use a "dry" tumbler with corn cob and/or walnut hulls.
* - A vernier caliper to measure stuff with. You don't need a $200 one, but you also don't need a $9.99 one from harbor freight.
* - A powder scale. This need not be a high end scale, but it needs to be accurate and repeatable. You will use it to set your charge weights, occasionally check your charge weights, and to confirm the bullets you buy weigh what you expect them to. So it won't be a "very frequently" use tool, but important when you do need to use it.
* - Normally I would recommend here a reloading manual, and buying one is not a bad idea. But you have access to a buttload of load data by simply asking for it here on the forum . . or calling me on the phone.

Seems like that is about it for the 'really needs'. What am I overlooking, everyone?

[SB]

Components. Buy them in bulk.
Powder Valley for primer and powder. Precision Delta or TJ Conavera for bullets.
If you don't have access to range brass, DiamondK brass has good rifle brass at decent prices.

[NJC]

Rumbler,
Exactly what I am looking for.. a you cant do it with out this list...or a stay away from this junk list.

SB, I have a hook up for brass, does buying powder and primers locally not save the $$ hazmat ?

Someone had told me about TJ conavera..good to get a second on them.

Something like this with the dies be ok ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEE-90030-BREECH-LOCK-CHALLENGER-SINGLE-STAGE-PRESS-KIT/321673766911?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D29310%26meid%3Dd7c746773ee14fdfa05e7710f63f b4a5%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D351 287073493

or is this a better option ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Pro-1000-Progressive-Press-9mm-90640-WILL-DO-ALL-PISTOL-CALIBERS-EXTRAS/181363828796?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D29310%26meid%3D9a0b36ed273346ff8688b3b7acf8 f700%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dp p%26sd%3D171294251211&rt=nc

Just spent some time on the dillon site... $700 plus for a similar setup

[FLT]

NJC . Look at what used Dillon equipment sales for on eBay . If you change your mind you can damn near get your money back . Dillon equipment just doesn't depreciate I sold a 1050 for the same thing I paid for it after I used it for several years.

[Cattle/Horses]

FLT, If Lee put out a calendar of the same quality/pics as Dillon, you'd be all about Lee too! Come on man!

http://www.submachinegirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Dillon-Precision-2015-Calendar.jpg

[AB]

I used to live two hours away from the Dillon store in Scottsdale. I was there every chance I got and learned a TON just hanging out and listening.

For me, I have regretted every "almost what I want" purchase. Every one. I have never regretted buying big once it was paid for and it was water under the bridge.

Come over and knock out 1,000 rounds of your caliber of choice on the 650. It's worth it to delay purchasing one for a few months to save up enough to get one.

I'm seriously almost ready to offer to reload it FOR you with your components just to keep you out of inferior gear!

But not quite.

[NJC]

AB,
I'll get with you since it sounds serious. I dont want to end up hating myself.

[SB]

If you go big, go blue. I have a Hornady LNL AP, it is ok, but really wish I had just gotten blue instead.

[NJC]

OK...so I can get .40 ammo for $14 a box, thats $280 a case
Projos are $140
powder $40 a lb
primers $32

If I get my brass for free I am saving $70 a case before shipping or hazmat.... Dayum... dont need another hobby, starting to wonder if this is really worth my time.

[FLT]

You won't save any money but you will get to shoot more. The savings on rifle ammo is a good bit more than pistol ammo. In most cases the ammo will be higher quality. Dillon equipment has a forever NO BULLSHIT warranty . Reloading is not for everyone. Ok I'm done.

[SB]

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

Maybe that works.

[Dale Gribble]

OK...so I can get .40 ammo for $14 a box, thats $280 a case
Projos are $140
powder $40 a lb
primers $32



7000 grains = 1lb








cost
per
required
Makes
Cost



Xtreme 155gr Plated
$48.60
500
1
500
$0.10
http://www.xtremebullets.com/10-40-155-RNFP-p/xc1040-155rnfp-b0500.htm (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.xtremebullets.com/10-40-155-RNFP-p/xc1040-155rnfp-b0500.htm&sa=D&usg=ALhdy2_AorbRvLuUAiT13UrpLQ1AEarG4w)


Unique
$21.00
7000
5
1400
$0.02
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2184418923/alliant-unique-smokeless-powder (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2184418923/alliant-unique-smokeless-powder&sa=D&usg=ALhdy2_ZdYKKfX9AM6ysVtJeJIl9iqoI2w)


Magtech
$26.00
1000
1
1000
$0.03
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/21492 (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/21492&sa=D&usg=ALhdy2_VGtWtQlD0Zlad7Rad0mUyuk7-WA)



$0.00
2500
1
2500
$0.00
















Per Round Cost
$0.14
















50 round price
$6.91

[JMW4570]

I gotta backup the SDB idea. 500 RPM would be a cakewalk for it.

Additionally, you will want;

* - A brass case cleaner of some type. Whole 'nother can of worms to open there, but know that the majority of folks use a "dry" tumbler with corn cob and/or walnut hulls.
* - A vernier caliper to measure stuff with. You don't need a $200 one, but you also don't need a $9.99 one from harbor freight.
* - A powder scale. This need not be a high end scale, but it needs to be accurate and repeatable. You will use it to set your charge weights, occasionally check your charge weights, and to confirm the bullets you buy weigh what you expect them to. So it won't be a "very frequently" use tool, but important when you do need to use it.
* - Normally I would recommend here a reloading manual, and buying one is not a bad idea. But you have access to a buttload of load data by simply asking for it here on the forum . . or calling me on the phone.

Seems like that is about it for the 'really needs'. What am I overlooking, everyone?

i'd add a Wilson case guage in each caliber.

[Dale Gribble]

NJC. The 40 you shoot. Is it a glock?

[NJC]

I have glocks and H&Ks in 40
Also looking to shoot .45ACP but primarily .40 for now...

SO yes Dale, it is , why ?

[Dale Gribble]

I have glocks and H&Ks in 40
Also looking to shoot .45ACP but primarily .40 for now...

SO yes Dale, it is , why ?

Glock 40's have an unsupported chamber. As I understand it their is a risk of a case rupture that is higher with reloading a glock with the stock barrel.

I don't own any .40 guns so I don't have first hand, but I am sure someone can enlighten us on the real issue.

[NJC]

Dale, this has been a known issue with Glocks in .40 for years. There is a very small part of the chamber right above the feed ramp that iwas unsupported. I am not sure if it is still so in current Glock generations.

Indications would be "smiley" faces on the base of the brass near the rim. REally in my understanding all you have to do is watch the cases and not load cases with smileys too hot.

[Airgator0470]

Let me know if/when you get into the .40S&W reloading scene... I'll see if I can hook you up with some free brass if you need it.

[Airgator0470]

I've not had any issues in some 15 years loading for the G22/G35. Glocks are not the only pistols with partially unsupported chambers. I still think it's a reloading error more than the chamber itself.

There have been improvements from what I understand.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/eBCpY8.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/exeBCpY8j)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/911/PBK4KL.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pbPBK4KLj)

[0utlaw]

My G22 has literally thousands of rounds of reloads through it and I have never had a problem. I don't roll my own though I smoke Georgia Arms reloads almost exclusively.

[Rumbler]

Two thoughts:

1) Ask Kevin Mock (at the range) I worked up a load for his .40S&W that is definitely into the 10MM realm. And have reloaded that brass several times now. No smilies to speak of.

2) I agree with Bob 100%. But if you get or have smileys it is not the end of the world . . or your brass. There is a thing made by most of the die companies called a "push thru base sizing die". Here is the Redding version:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/reloading-dies/handgun-dies/redding-grx-push-thru-base-sizing-die-prod39741.aspx

[Airgator0470]

NJC you have 1K .40S&W brass headed your way... all in 50 round boxes.

[NJC]

PM inbound

[NJC]

Going to order these projos tonight unless the wisdom here says otherwise.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1050391089/rainier-leadsafe-bullets-40-s-and-w-10mm-auto-400-diameter-180-grain-plated-hollow-point?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Was going to order some frog snot ones like AB shoots but I can get these for the same price. Lots of good reviews online.

I bought 1k of winchester small pistol primers today. Hope to make a trip to DSH tomorrow to track down a lb of powder. Brass is on the way. Once I sell this refrigerator the press will be on its way, or maybe sooner we will see.

[Dale Gribble]

http://www.xtremebullets.com/10-40-180-HP-p/xc1040-180hp-b0500.htm

Cheaper. I shoot 38 and 9mm stuff, its good. Supposed to be a thicker pleating than rainier and berrys..

Sometimes you can find powder online at basspro. Buy $100 worth or something and the shipping is free (including hazmat). Prices can be highish, but not Kevins high.

[JMW4570]

http://www.precisionbullets.com/store/ 40 Caliber - 170 RNF (.401). If you want to try a handful of these, PM me. Jim

[NJC]

Thanks Dale, I remember you saying about the powder from basspro. I figure that for this first batch I will try to find a pound of powder at DSH or KEvins and be free of the hazmat. Also the gunshow is weekend after next and they usually have a bunch of reloading stuff.

Rumbler gave me a long list of powders he uses for my appication so I think I should be bale to find something. Should this be a success and I continue to reload, I will definitely buyin larger quantities.

JMW, thanks for that offer and link.

[WinterSoldier]

Hand loading can be as expensive or as inexpensive, as fast or as slow, as exact or as loosey-goosey, as run-of-the-mill or cutting edge, as up-to-the-minute or as retro, as you want it to be. Sometimes I like to just sit and load brass shotgun shells with a hand primer, a stick I whittled to barely fit inside of the shells, wads I cut from cardboard using a chamfered pistol cartridge in the right caliber, a hammer.... and some melted beeswax. I suppose if I really, really, wanted to go completely low tech I could figure out how to de-prime without a press and how to prime without a store-bought priming tool. But that would be just too much of an affectation, because bottom line, there really isn't any truly low tech with cartridge firearms. I always advise buying cheap equipment to start and working up after you are sure you really want to hand load stuff, but buying good manuals appropriate to the kind of loading one plans to do... AND READING THEM! The Lee and Lyman manuals are the most generally applicable because they aren't solely written to hawk proprietary components... but whatever manuals a new hand loader looks at they should read the general conceptual part a few times before going to a specific caliber and starting to assemble ammunition. The devil isn't entirely in the details. It's just as much in having a clear understanding of general concepts many of which change somewhat from pistol, to rifle, to shotgun... and moreso, much, much, moreso for "black" as opposed to smokeless powder. Take smokeless powder concepts to loading black powder, and you can seriously blow something up (possibly yourself) in short order... and to some extent, vice versa. I specialize in loading almost everything under the sun, some of which involves cardboard templates to cut paper cartridges or paper-patched (wrapped) bullets, but as of yet I still haven't gotten around to buying any Dillon presses.

[Johnny]

I agree with you winter soldier,I had one of the blue beasts 20yrs ago,do not plan on owning another one.I let some other guy own the blue bastard.Hated it.

[AB]

I agree with you winter soldier,I had one of the blue beasts 20yrs ago,do not plan on owning another one.I let some other guy own the blue bastard.Hated it.

That's a total 180 degrees from my experience! I absolutely love mine.

[SB]

I am pretty close to not buying anymore plates bullets. You have to watch and make sure you don't overcrimp. Not so with the fmj bullets like the precision delta ones. Starting off the plated are fine though. The most important thing is to just do it.
Glad you are doing it, we can always use another hobby.

[Dale Gribble]

I am pretty close to not buying anymore plates bullets. You have to watch and make sure you don't overcrimp. Not so with the fmj bullets like the precision delta ones. Starting off the plated are fine though. The most important thing is to just do it.

What do you crimp with? I use Lee's Factory Crimp Die and I've not noticed an issue.

[SB]

Rcbs die with taper crimp. Have used the FCD before and didn't care for it. Mostly personal preference. Seemed to squish lead bullets too much.
This is mostly in 45 though.

[WinterSoldier]

That's a total 180 degrees from my experience! I absolutely love mine.



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In many ways the difference between the highest blue Dillon down through the green and orange and any other colors to the lowest Lee red, is all about time, and PURPOSE.

The complex and expensive models are good for making lots and lots of rounds identical in most or all respects, very fast... I would call that "bulk" hand loading.

The models in between have niches for lesser production with more changes between one session and the next, changes in caliber or changes in bullet weight or powder amount, crimp, or other details... They are less speedy and generally more adept at producing greater variety at a slower pace. When you get down to the simplest presses you may have either the slowest and cheapest way to make lots of identical rounds, or one of the easiest ways of making just a few rounds of something or another of all kinds... OR a way to make ammo that just CANNOT be made on the speedy, more complicated presses. Try loading a .577/.45 Martini Henry, a 12.7x44R (roughly .51 caliber) Swedish Rolling Block, or even a more common .45-70 Government cartridge on yer fancy-schmancey rocket reloader. Another specialty item is .50 BMG, because of its extreme OAL (OVERALL LENGTH)! More likely than not your typical progressive press of ANY price will absolutely REFUSE to even accept the dies for such calibers, because they are far larger than the 5/8" so-called "standard" die size. There is in fact, more than one "standard". It works the other way, too. What good is a progressive press for reloading .25 ACP? (Don't bother asking "what kind of idiot?"... that sort of question just won't get you anywhere you want to go, at all.) The "one size loads all" hand primers don't even work with either the extremely small or extremely large cases... and I prefer to prime that way because I can FEEL the primer being properly seated. Ever see a primer smashed to oblivion sideways across a primer pocket? If you haven't, you haven't been looking... that USELESS load was most likely run through a progressive press... and I've even seen that situation in "factory" ammo. I load a plethora of calibers, usually not so many rounds of the same kind at the same time... and they can vary from .25 to .577 in case head diameter. If you do have a progressive, and you ever want to load some of the less-usual large calibers, you will probably have to drop down to a simple D press. An even less expensive C press is handier for tiny or middle sized calibers though a non-progressive turrent press will also handle most of those calibers faster. Lee has an extremely inexpensive hand press that needs no bench to mount a press on. It also puts a lot of stress on the user's hand so I wouldn't recommend it for any but very low production purposes... but it is a good option to take to a range with components and other necessary light equipment and adjust charges in real time, loading a few test loads at a time, at some shady place off of the firing line. I have a Lee C press that is mounted to one of those Frankford Arsenal portable plastic reloading stands that I have taken to the range for that sort of purpose. It's bulkier, but plenty light and portable, extremely inexpensive, and doesn't strain the hand.

Hand loading presses are NOT either/or, are NOT "one size fits all", and NO press no matter how expensive fullfills every possible purpose. If you do all kinds of things with them you will need all kinds of presses and other gadgets too. If you never do anything but the boring and predictable task of putting the same charge and the same bullet in the same COMMON caliber of cartridge, for only a few calibers... that's Dillon Territory. I live mostly in RCBS Territory with some Lee add-ons, but I've recently found that sometimes the "cheap" Lee stuff works better and faster on turret jobs than with a RCBS turret... not to mention that the Lee turret heads have a better number of available die mounting holes, are lighter and more easily storable with the dies attached, and cost cents on the dollar to what RCBS turret heads cost.

It is only possible to get "ideological" about brands or even types of presses for hand loading, if the ideologue has a VERY NARROW mental frame of reference.

[AB]

I keep an RCBS single stage around for when I want to turn out the lights and pretend I'm in the 1800's too! Great fun.

In all seriousness, though, every machine has its limitations. No, you're not going to reload every caliber on the planet on a progressive machine, but that's not my purpose in reloading, nor is it for most people around here. I never give advice on really anything until I know the why/how of their question, so my brand loyalty will always stay inside the parameters of the person asking.

As far as the sideways primers, I see that in my press maybe once in 20,000 rounds. It's always been caused by a crimped primer pocket rather than a failure of the machine to align them right, but I have (if I do say so myself) excellent technique and pace on the reloading press.

I wouldn't consider brand loyalty to be VERY NARROW in thinking because Dillon doesn't build machines to reload obscure cartridges, though. Different machines for different needs.

(GO BLUE!!)

[AB]

What do you crimp with? I use Lee's Factory Crimp Die and I've not noticed an issue.

I just this week took my .40 Lee FCD out as an experiment. I was also running a Lee undersized sizing die, but since my brass source started shooting 4th Gen Glocks I haven't needed to, so I went back to the standard Dillon sizing die. My issue with some ammo accuracy (I think) is the cases I'm getting might be on the thick side and the FCD is undersizing the bullet, making them pattern rather than group at any kind of distance.

I never had the issue with properly jacketed bullets, though. Only plated, lead, and coated ones.

[Dale Gribble]

I'll keep happily churning out ammo on my Lee Loadmaster. Under $200 bucks, and once you learn from other users ( http://loadmastervideos.com/ ) and throw Lee's manual away its pretty dead nuts reliable.

I get 90% of the speed (from what others tell me) of more expensive brands, with perhaps 5% more hassle.

The load master works for me because I am willing to work around it quirks, and for my volume it was more than affordable.

[Rumbler]

I certainly go along with the 'some presses are suited to some jobs'.

For high volume production of "straight" wall pistol cartridges there are two 650XL's on the bench.
For medium volume pistol and smaller rifle cartridges there is a 550B on the bench.
For large pistol (think 460 S&W neighborhood) and precision or large rifle cartridges there are two single stage rock crushers on the bench. . . and I'd like to have a third one.

Thus far the only "quirk" I have found is all their tendency to crush or pinch the crap out of a finger if left between the shell plate and the bottom of the die plate. ;)

[Frady]

I certainly go along with the 'some presses are suited to some jobs'.

For high volume production of "straight" wall pistol cartridges there are two 650XL's on the bench.
For medium volume pistol and smaller rifle cartridges there is a 550B on the bench.
For large pistol (think 460 S&W neighborhood) and precision or large rifle cartridges there are two single stage rock crushers on the bench. . . and I'd like to have a third one.

Thus far the only "quirk" I have found is all their tendency to crush or pinch the crap out of a finger if left between the shell plate and the bottom of the die plate. ;)

*ahem*

Not COMPLETELY accurate there buddy. ;-)


*for clarification, I've seen Rumbler deal with a few "quirks" on a 650. To be fair, there was a team of untrained monkeys making their best effort to make his life difficult... I just like poking the bear.

[Johnny]

Rumbler,I have a rock chucker that I have been using for over 40yrs can't kill it.

[Airgator0470]

Rumbler,I have a rock chucker that I have been using for over 40yrs can't kill it.

I'm right behind you. I still use one as I simply don't shoot enough pistol reloads to need a progressive nor do I shoot enough .223 reloads. I have an ammo advantage and when that ends, perhaps I'll need a progressive... I'd love to have one of those bigger/faster machines.

[FLT]

I'm right up there with Johnny I believe I've had mine 47 years . I have wanted to get a rock chucker supreme but the original rock chucker will still be good when I'm long gone. If I listed all the presses I own I'd get called out on it and have to text Tack pictures to post for me. I've been thinking about giving Bud the old rock chucker so I would have a excuse to buy a supreme . I've always loaded rifle cal. On a single stage press but am considering setting a 1050 up for 300BLK . Here's a fun question how many of you know what RCBS is short for?

[NJC]

case tumbler running in the garage right now... 300 rounds cleaned after 2 hours... 300 more in there right now !

[AB]

Which tumbler did you get?

[mapper]

What media separator did you end up with?

[NJC]

Which tumbler did you get?

5 lb tumbler from Harbor Freight and a 25lb box of walnut media.

[NJC]

What media separator did you end up with?

Yeah....uh.. about that...I use agallon milk jug with the top cut off and holes drilled in the bottom....

[Rumbler]

NJC, I'll share a secret with you; Nu-Finish "The once a year car polish".

On initial treatment I'll put a couple of ounces in the tumbler (but we have a fairly large tumbler) pour it in very slowly while the tumbler is running with no brass. Let it run a few more minutes until the clumps are gone. Then add your brass.

Then I only add a couple of teaspoons about every third tumbler load.

Nu-Finish has no ammonia so it won't make the brass brittle, a bottle of it lasts about four times as long as the stuff you buy from Brownells/Midway, and it keeps the brass from dulling for a surprisingly long time once it is cleaned.

Oh, and it makes the brass look like new gold. :cool:

[AB]

Ill try that myself!

[NJC]

That stainless media you tumbled my rifle brass with is the business.. those cases looked brand spanking new

[FLT]

I've tried it it's substantially less expensive than than the Dillon or Lyman and seems to work just as well if not better.

[AB]

Stainless pins give the best results, but the process is a bit of a PITA.

[mapper]

If you want a sift pan that fits over a 5 gal bucket, its yours. I used it for a year untill I got tired of shaking media out of rifle cases like a salt shaker.
For pistol it worked fine.

[NJC]

mapper.. thanks.. I'll get with you next week when I am off !

[NJC]

projectiles here
brass out the wazoo.. thanks to AirGator and a coworker.
primers here
case prep... all together and been running on and off the last few days.
Press and accessories... on the big brown truck.

powder - hopefull tomorrow at DSH

Getting closer to being ready.

[mlawrence]

What press did you decide on?

[NJC]

lee pro 1000, much less painless price point than the big blue. Will upgrade if I keep at it.

[Johnny]

I like using the Lyman 2500 ultra sonic cleaner,cleans inside outside primer pockets also.After I dry them throw them into corncob media for about 10 minutes looks like brand new brass.

[Rumbler]

lee pro 1000, much less painless price point than the big blue. Will upgrade if I keep at it.

Even being a "big blue" guy, I think that was a wise decision. Just don't forget to do due diligence; check it drops powder in each cartridge case, make sure the finished product chambers in the firearm you plan to use them in. I do that to this day . . . and I am a big blue guy. ;)

[NJC]

Thanks to Rumbler, AirGator, AB and others for input and advice.
I have all the components and the equipment.

I hope to make some test rounds between now and sunday.

AB said my reloading bench would not win me any prizes for wood working.

haters gonna hate !

[Johnny]

Njc if it works for you who gives a skinny rats ass.Every one is not a carpenter.

[NJC]

Johnny, well in all fairness we have yet to establish that it works...but if there is a big boom sunday at Talon, I will blame it on AB for not making me a bench :-)

IT's actually an old coffee table with a short plank lag bolted to it and then the press mounted to it.. Sanford and sons but it's mobile and stable which is more than I can say for many members here !

[NJC]

Update:
Ghetto bench did not work worth a darn..that reloading press was rocking like a crack head looking for a fix.
Spent the day building a 4x2 table with a 1 inch thick oak top and a 3/4 inch thick plywood storage shelf. The Press is bolted to it now and i think it's pretty secure.

Upside, I learned a lot today and found a load for 7.4 gr of longshot. The next disk up in my measure goes to 8.0gr so I think I will have to buy one of these so I can get the amount of powder I want.

http://leeprecision.com/adj-charge-bar.html

I gor the COAL set to 1.125 which the load dats says is where it needs to be. I loaded a dummy with no powder and it chambered in a glock.

Hope to get back to it middle of of the week to get some ammo in the bucket ;-)

Lee says my dies will do 10mm also, which I happen to own one of so, uh...I can see where this gets addictive...my OCD will kick into overdrive here soon.

[Rumbler]

Yup. 40S&W dies for sure are the same ones used for 10MM. You just have to readjust the bullet seating, crimping die, and case flair (powder drop) - dies UP to adjust for the longer case.

P.S. I have some 10mm load data using Longshot that will rock your world. :cool:

[SB]

There are some plans for an NRA bench out there that are really nice. I based my bench off of it.

[mapper]

See post #10 in this thread.
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/97848-lee-adjustable-charge-bar.html

I have also seen blank disks where you drill your own opening.

The disks are cheap enough to experiment with a spare set.

[NJC]

Yup. 40S&W dies for sure are the same ones used for 10MM. You just have to readjust the bullet seating, crimping die, and case flair (powder drop) - dies UP to adjust for the longer case.

P.S. I have some 10mm load data using Longshot that will rock your world. :cool:

Figured you would !

[WinterSoldier]

Rumbler,I have a rock chucker that I have been using for over 40yrs can't kill it.

I went to a Rock Chucker when I needed to load stuff of greater than .45 caliber, and also after I bent the handle on my RCBS turret press like a bow... but from there I went on down to several of those little Lee C presses, because they are so inexpensive and easy to use... then up just a little to a Lee 4-hole turret... because it's inexpensive and easier to use than the RCBS turret (though I suspect less exact). The Lee 4-hole aluminum turrets have a more useful number of holes than the RCBS cast iron 5-hole turrets and are so much less expensive and easier to store, that for most calibers I'm slowly switching die sets from RCBS turrets over to Lee turrets. It's a lot easier to sort through a pile of Lee turrets with dies installed to find the set of dies I'm looking for, than it is a pile of RCBS turrets, because the Lee turrets are about half the size and almost none of the weight. A Lee turret is so light it doesn't weigh much more than air.

[Johnny]

Winter soldier,i have been using one of the turret presses for a yr now to reload my 45 acps,works good anything larger I go to my rock chucker.

[WinterSoldier]

Update:
Ghetto bench did not work worth a darn..that reloading press was rocking like a crack head looking for a fix.
Spent the day building a 4x2 table with a 1 inch thick oak top and a 3/4 inch thick plywood storage shelf. The Press is bolted to it now and i think it's pretty secure.

I have several benches and they are made of 2" lumber exclusively except for a shelf down across the legs. Even with that shelf below well loaded and a set of shelves abut 4 feet high sitting on the back of the top of the benches, against a wall, and also well-weighed down... there are times the back of the bench lifts up when one of my RCBS presses is put to a difficult job. My benches are also 24" x 48". I might have made them 30" or 32" wide if I had the space, but the basement room they are in is pretty small.

[NJC]

may go ahead and throw a 45lb plate on there !

[SB]

Go ahead and make one with the cabinet up top for storing powder and such. Not that difficult.
4773

[Johnny]

When I clean mine up I will send you a picture of my bench.It will not move when you really put pressure on it .The top is for storing powder an primers enclosed with double doors on each side.shelf across bottom of top is bullet storage.Formica top on the bottom were my press is mounted to keep any spilled powder from acumalating in any cracks.Have been using it for 20 yrs.

[WinterSoldier]

PIKER!

Here's how to properly build... AND properly crap up a couple of reloading benches.

NOTE: No powder is stored on or near the benches.

No... I can't even get to them to do anything right now. Been that way awhile, too. But it won't stay that way. Right now I'm busy doing Revolutionary War research and building this and that.

[Cattle/Horses]

PIKER!

Here's how to properly build... AND properly crap up a couple of reloading benches.

NOTE: No powder is stored on or near the benches.

No... I can't even get to them to do anything right now. Been that way awhile, too. But it won't stay that way. Right now I'm busy doing Revolutionary War research and building this and that.

I figured you could recall that from memory!

[Frady]

Harbor freight has a bamboo bench that works great as a foundation for a reloading bench.

http://www.harborfreight.com/60-inch-workbench-93454.html

[Rumbler]

Johnny Bench!


http://www.canopy.net/johnny.bench/johnnybench1.jpg


http://www.canopy.net/johnny.bench/johnnybench2.jpg

Wait. Those are not supposed to be on their side. 'didn't show up that way in Photoshop. :irked:

[WinterSoldier]

I figured you could recall that from memory!

To quote Walter Brennan from To Have and Have Not... "My memory ain't what it used to be, if it ever was."

No, I wasn't around during that war, but the one I did participate in, is scrambled like eggs in my brain. Or, it's probably my brain that's scrambled... "Viet Nam Cong Hoa."

[WinterSoldier]

If you think my benches are messy you should see my bullet moulds. They are piled and strewn all over the place. Then there are the containers of cast bullets... They have the additional disadvantage of being heavy as hell...

Obviously, clutter attracts me, or visa versa.

But I make my powder hard to get to on purpose. It isn't stored anywhere near the benches. I don't think it's anything like a good idea to be able to just casually reach over and pick one. Scrambled as my brain is I don't need a rifle bolt blown through it from absent-mindedly grabbing the wrong powder.

[FLT]

I only have one powder at the time on the bench. Mistakes can be Catastrophic !

[Rumbler]

Wait. You guys don't mix powders?

I get some of my highest velocity readings that way! :wiggle:

[SB]

Wait. You guys don't mix powders?

I get some of my highest velocity readings that way! :wiggle:

I do, my favorite is WTF powder. Scoop, pack, and scoop again. Then use a cheater bar on the seating die.
My plastic surgeon swears by it.

[Dale Gribble]

I like to put 1 grn of a FAST powder, and then Top the brass off with SLOW powder. Compress that mother fucker and then hand it to a friend to shoot.

Hey, TS, want to shoot my gun?

[Cattle/Horses]

^^^Dale, add a little black powder. The smoke cloud will bewilder them.

[Rumbler]

Come on Dale, it is only a 9mm, it is not like that could hurt someone. :rolleyes:



I like to put 1 grn of a FAST powder, and then Top the brass off with SLOW powder. Compress that mother fucker and then hand it to a friend to shoot.

Hey, TS, want to shoot my gun?

[Johnny]

that black powder will really give the bullet a send off.I had a sassafrass stump I had been diging on for quite some time got tired of digging,went to my black powder accessories filled a baby food jar about 3/4s full put a hole in the top for a wick/fuse buried under the stump,blew that damp stump 50 feet in the air.did have cornagraphs available back then so I can not give a report on the velocity of said stump.

[Dale Gribble]

Come on Dale, it is only a 9mm, it is not like that could hurt someone. :rolleyes:

Dude I was talking about a 7.62x54r case. I'm not going to blow up a $500 gun to make a point when I can blow up a $79 gun.

[Rumbler]

oh. 7.62x54R.

How can you tell it is not already blown up?:roflmao:

[Dale Gribble]

oh. 7.62x54R.

How can you tell it is not already blown up?:roflmao:

If bullet comes out barrel and bolt stays in gun, its good.

[Rumbler]

Dang. I should have sold my S&W 19-4 with a pregnant barrel to you. It just had one bulge in it, and that was a full inch in from the muzzle! ;)

[Dale Gribble]

Dang. I should have sold my S&W 19-4 with a pregnant barrel to you. It just had one bulge in it, and that was a full inch in from the muzzle! ;)

S&W not Russian. If its not Russian its Crap.

[Johnny]

Hey dribble you selling commie crap now??????Next thing will be Vietnam Crap.

[Dale Gribble]

Hey dribble you selling commie crap now??????Next thing will be Vietnam Crap.

Its actually Chinese, Vietnam war era, does that count?

[Johnny]

Yeah it counts.Will look elsewere from now on.

[NJC]

Got about 15 rounds ready for testing.

7.4 gr of Hodgdons longshot
Winchester Small pistol primers
165 gr plated JHPs
COAL 1.125

Hope to test tomorrow night.

[AB]

Funny, that was your 1911th post.

[NJC]

Look at that....

getting close to the big 2k !

[Rumbler]

Funny, that was your 1911th post.


I got that. But I don't think that NJC did. :hahaha::goodjob:

[SB]

I remember my first ones. The first 2 I fired with my eyes closed. Not worried, just cautious. Did not have this pool of knowledge to draw from.

[NJC]

I got that. But I don't think that NJC did. :hahaha::goodjob:

Why.. whats the significance of 1911 ?? It was like 100 yrs ago ;-)

[NJC]

I remember my first ones. The first 2 I fired with my eyes closed. Not worried, just cautious. Did not have this pool of knowledge to draw from.

YUP..
Was going to go last night on my way home from work, but then I said.. naahh all I have is my duty gun.. I dont want to have to tell my boss I blew it up, even though it is mine. I will test with a GLock 23 and an HK USP in.40 just to make sure they feed and chamber in both.

I'm pretty comfortable with the recipie though, it is on the low end, but I could not get my powder disk to 7.5 or 7.6.. I have an adjustable disk on the way.. COAL has been measured on all of them... 1.125, 1.123 that sort of area, but none larger than 1.125, none smaller than 1.122. IT seems the more ass you put on the press when seating the bullet, the different the result. I am going to play with the seating die to account for this i think.

I will report back tomorrow with the results.

[Johnny]

If your die is set up properly it will not make any difference how much ass you put behind pulled the handle down.Check your case length.Trim until they are all the same length.

[NJC]

trim pistol cases..who does that ??

[Evil_McNasty]

I'm pretty comfortable with the recipie though, it is on the low end, but I could not get my powder disk to 7.5 or 7.6.. I have an adjustable disk on the way.. COAL has been measured on all of them... 1.125, 1.123 that sort of area, but none larger than 1.125, none smaller than 1.122. IT seems the more ass you put on the press when seating the bullet, the different the result. I am going to play with the seating die to account for this i think.



For 9 & 45's, I use a Lee press with the disk powder measure as well. The first couple loads I did were at the low end of the tables, and while they shot just fine and were within the proper fps of the manual, I would get a few FTF's. So the disk's next charge-setting up was perfect. The lack of an ability for finer adjustment is the one thing I don't like about the disks. But once you do find the right spot, it's so easy. And really, 45ACP is about the easiest cartridge to load (that I have seen in my few years of reloading).

I have a some 77gr 5.56 you can try if you are still chasing that down. I worked up a magic load for my precision AR.

[WinterSoldier]

trim pistol cases..who does that ??

I trim down 9x19mm to 9x18mm on occasion, but by and large I don't even measure pistol brass. Ain't gonna hurt anything to measure/trim. Just extra work. If I was going to trim it would probably be with .357 Sig., but I've never loaded any .357 Sig. Hmmm. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea with other bottleneck pistol calibers but I haven't loaded any of those enough times to worry about it, yet. Revolver brass needing crimping can benefit from trimming for consistency. The whole subject probably boils down to what you think you're doing...

[JMW4570]

trim pistol cases..who does that ??

Never have normal caliber pistol brass. Jim

[NJC]

Range trip went well

Recoil was stout but manageable. About as hot as I would want for practice in a Glock 23
All rounds chambered and cycled reliably and accuracy was great.

Of the brass I recovered, the case mouth of all were deformed. Is this something I need to look into more ?

[AB]

How is it deformed?

[NJC]

stand by for text pic..

[AB]

Usually, that is an indication it is hitting the inside of the ejection port on the way out. Depending on the gun that can be a result of a lot of things! Once we put them over a chrono we can tell if there is too much or too little velocity running.

[NJC]

OK...well if I load up say 20 or 25 can we look at it at the next C4 ? Would you mind bringing your chrono.. I will also bring the brass for you to look at.
A couple of them have some healthy extraction and ejector marks on the rims.. 2 of the seven I recovered to be exact.

[Rumbler]

I'm thinking fatigued recoil spring. They don't last forever, and knowing that you are not exceeding published load data I think that is a well grounded suspicion.

FWIW.:)

[NJC]

Thank you very much...
Am going to chrono some next wednesday and I will shoot through my Glock 22 and my HK USP .40

Rumbler, the only thing I replace on my glocks is sights , a broken slide stop lever on a gen 1 glock 19 and a couple of trigger or locking block pins on a stipple grip glock 17..
I think I did some mag springs during "The ban"

Refuse to replace anything else.

I do like that load though and the projos were very accurate for me..
I might go up to 7.5 grains.

Next time I am buying powder though, I will look for something that loads in the 4 to 5 grain range so I can get more rounds per pound.
Bullseye maybe ???

[NJC]

Evil..
Thanks..
PM inbound

[Rumbler]

I haven't loaded any Bullseye in 25 years.

The Alliant site:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1

shows it as a very versatile powder, and I know it is popular as heck, but my recollection of it, is that it is very 'smokey' and sooty.

Maybe that has changed, I honestly don't know. :chinscratch:

[SB]

If I can get over that way I will bring you some bullseye. It is one of my favorites for 9 and 45.

[Johnny]

Bullseye is still dirty as hell.The only thing as dirty is 700x not 800x.

[mapper]

Still a favorite of mine in 38,9,45, and the old hercules bullseye is still good, 3.8 gr under a 200 gr lrn in 45 gives me 715 fps with a sd of 5.
So I'm using it.

The alliant is a little slower by about .2 gr from what I noticed when I had it, and compared the lots of powder to each other. (By equal weight)
Your results may vary depending on the lot of powder you have.

The volumetric displacement was diffrent between the lots I compared as well.

Yes you do have to clean them after you shoot them, but I do that anyway.

[Johnny]

I clean mine after every shoot also but do not like the residue that comes with bullseye.

[NJC]

Finally got to chrono my load:

165 gr plated JHP
winchester primers
7.4 gr of hogdons long shot

1057 fps from a glock 22 across ABs chronograph was fastest. Average was 1030.

I'll take it. Now to start pulling the lever to make the ammo !!

[Johnny]

Go for it!

[Rumbler]

Oddly fulfilling. Isn't it. :)


Finally got to chrono my load:

165 gr plated JHP
winchester primers
7.4 gr of hogdons long shot

1057 fps from a glock 22 across ABs chronograph was fastest. Average was 1030.

I'll take it. Now to start pulling the lever to make the ammo !!

[NJC]

Yup,
Cranked out about 200 rounds yesterday :-)

More to come !

[AB]

Progressive presses will eat components at an alarming rate. Stock up at every opportunity!

[AB]

Totally not being snarky. How long did it take to
make 200 rounds in your setup?

[NJC]

by the time I loaded primers, powder, brass etc and allowing for the fact im new and messed up a couple times, about an hour.
I can definitely go faster, but right now I'm more concerned with getting the process down and right.

I think I could prob get around 400 an hour, but I think that would be about it. Manually setting each bullet is a pita but the Lee bullet feeder looks hokey.

[wheelman]

It is never about speed.

Safety first.

[Rumbler]

I absolutely agree!

The speed will come with familiarity. Putting in the time and attention to learn the feel of each individual function (station) is time best spent. You will learn by feel that the machine will almost always tell you when something is wrong, or going wrong, before it becomes a potentially dangerous situation.

[NJC]

primer feeding seems to be the weak point for the lee press. I have implemented some tricks from the web and it is much better. The press primes on the up stroke of the lever and unless this is a positive motion for the full range the primer will not seat properly.So i pay a lot of attention to primers and feeding. This seems to be working.

[NJC]

Loaded a little more today, maybe aniother hundred. Hampered somewhat by finnicky primer feeding.

[Rumbler]

NJC, I think that you will be surprised by how much nasty crap primers come with. I would suggest cleaning all the primer feeding system you can, very thoroughly.

[Dale Gribble]

Njc..

get the the hand primer. It is easy, you can sit and watch (any shit on tv, your kids, the neighbors fight) and prime 500 rounds.

Also the site loadmastervideos.com has folks who use the different lee stuff and have fixed about every issue.

[NJC]

Dale,
I'll take a look at that site, thanks.

YOu know I thought about hand priming but here is the deal. Stage 1 is depriming and sizing, stage 2 is prime and powder, stage 3 is projectile seating, cripm etc..
To hand prime I would basically be depriming all my brass, taking it off the press, hand priming then when ready to reload I would have effectively turned my progressive into a single stage.

I'll keep working on it thouhg, thanks for the suggestions.

[NJC]

ammo performed flawlessly today. I will make some more tomorrow ;-)

[NJC]

plagued by primer feed and indexing issues today..
I can hear the Dillon owners chuckling.

Dale I spent a while on that web site. They are geared towards a different press unfortunately, but thanks.

[Dale Gribble]

Did you look in the pro 1000 sub forum?

[NJC]

it was not there.... well I did not see it.

[Dale Gribble]

Look again copper.