Another Plate Buy

[Jafar]

So…when we gonna do this again gents?

[Tack Driver]

So…when we gonna do this again gents?

I've got as much as I can carry at the moment.

[JMW4570]

I want a side plate and a carrier for my bulldog's chest. Sammy needs ballistic protection too.

[JMW4570]

3459 Sammy says...Need me some body armor....

[Danman]

3459 Sammy says...Need me some body armor....

Shoot, I'll throw in just to see this dog wear AR500. With our logo on it.

[Tack Driver]

Dale knows faggy things like sewing. He can whip something up.

[Jafar]

So…who wants to do this..

[Dale Gribble]

We are an AR500 dealer. I can't offer the Group Buy price but I should be able to offer the Group Buy price plus shipping, which should still be less with tax and everything than what it costs from AR500 direct.

[Dale Gribble]

Dale knows faggy things like sewing. He can whip something up.

Being able to sew tents, sails, and molle gear isn't faggy.



Playing golf however is quite faggy.

[Jafar]

We are an AR500 dealer. I can't offer the Group Buy price but I should be able to offer the Group Buy price plus shipping, which should still be less with tax and everything than what it costs from AR500 direct.

This really confuses me.

[Tack Driver]

This really confuses me.

So it's not just basic physics then. Good to know.

[Dale Gribble]

This really confuses me.

We ate the shipping with the group buy.

Do you get confused easily?

[Jafar]

We ate the shipping with the group buy.

Do you get confused easily?

Gotcha. So can I place one order through you without anyone else joining right?

[Jafar]

So it's not just basic physics then. Good to know.

Been taking care of sick wife and baby since last Sunday, running on about 10 hours of sleep since then. Cut me some slack, dick.

[Dale Gribble]

Gotcha. So can I place one order through you without anyone else joining right?

I believe so. I don't know if we have minimum order, but I'll cross that bridge right before I burn it.

[Jafar]

I believe so. I don't know if we have minimum order, but I'll cross that bridge right before I burn it.

See, now that actually is confusing. Don't burn bridges with the vendor, I could only imagine how long it would take if they have to ferry down the river.

[surfer5]

I might be in. I missed all the prices and whatnot last time. I want to get front back and sides. I don't know where the price sheets are. What range are we talking?

[Cattle/Horses]

I've got as much as I can carry at the moment.

Give em a year then you'll want more. Just like Pamela Anderson did.

[Dale Gribble]

Here: (https://docs.google.com/a/5russells.info/spreadsheets/d/1pJqDGfZgKSfwVwChfLofiGd1nfmxQ03GOgtrE1-gVIo/edit#gid=1346304401)


(https://docs.google.com/a/5russells.info/spreadsheets/d/1pJqDGfZgKSfwVwChfLofiGd1nfmxQ03GOgtrE1-gVIo/edit#gid=1346304401)

[Jafar]

Something I didn't really think about til this moment. I'm not getting Line-X on mine. Sure they'll save you from spalling. But only after the round has exploded 2 magazines, a med kit, a radio, and flashlight into my face.

[BlueBronco]

I would get at least a pair of front/back plates this go around.

[Dale Gribble]

The come with line-x regardless from AR500.com.

And after shooting steel that was not protected at all, I will use Line-x and I am thinking about a kevlar envelope as well.

I believe their are several online story's and pics of US Soldiers who had magazines shot and the armor still saved them. The fragments of a FMJ round hitting your neck seems deadly if allowed to occur.

[Jafar]

All the order options from ar and from your price list show the Line-X ones as different models and price, correct?

[Dale Gribble]

The all have line X base coat. You can pay extra for the line-x Build up (thicker coat of line-x).

Except it isn't line-x, its a line-x coating called Paxcon, supposedly used by the .mil.

http://www.linex.com/pages/2010/military/

[surfer5]

The all have line X base coat. You can pay extra for the line-x Build up (thicker coat of line-x).

Except it isn't line-x, its a line-x coating called Paxcon, supposedly used by the .mil.

http://www.linex.com/pages/2010/military/

Thoughts on this upgrade? I was thinking of getting the more expensive plates because I didn't think the cheaper ones had the line x coating. But now that I know they all do, I don't know if I care about the extra line x and I'm now thinking of staying with the cheaper option.

[Jafar]

Yeah, same here.

[Tack Driver]

I INTENDED to go with a build-up front, and none on the back and sides. I ended up with build-up front and back.

If you're a DIY kinda guy, I wonder how well, the roll on truck bed liner stuff would work, or if a dense rubber pad over it wouldn't be better.

Anybody pad the back of their plates?

[surfer5]

I INTENDED to go with a build-up front, and none on the back and sides. I ended up with build-up front and back.

If you're a DIY kinda guy, I wonder how well, the roll on truck bed liner stuff would work, or if a dense rubber pad over it wouldn't be better.

Anybody pad the back of their plates?

That is the exact configuration I was thinking I would do (upgrade front plate only) if I did any upgrade. What made you change your mind?

[Tack Driver]

That is the exact configuration I was thinking I would do (upgrade front plate only) if I did any upgrade. What made you change your mind?

It was changed for me.

I think you've got it figured out. That's how BR ordered his and it got me to thinking. I don't really see how spalling can get you off the back plate. I might try a DIY buildup on my side plates though. The thought of getting hit in one of those is terrifying.

[Dale Gribble]

Does your head extend even with or beyond the back plate? The fragments travel at 90 degrees and more.

Roll on bed liner had been tried. It can work. For $60 or 70 bucks however it sure doesn't seem worth the hassle or risk.

I don't think a rubber pad will help, but for it to help it would have to be glued to the plate somehow.

[Dale Gribble]

BTW. Evolution of the ar500 armor and anti fragment/spall prevention.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1340155__ARCHIVED_THREAD____UNOFFICIAL_DIY_Armor_a nd_stuff_thread__PIC_HEAVY_.html&page=1

[Jafar]

Does your head extend even with or beyond the back plate? The fragments travel at 90 degrees and more.

Roll on bed liner had been tried. It can work. For $60 or 70 bucks however it sure doesn't seem worth the hassle or risk.

I don't think a rubber pad will help, but for it to help it would have to be glued to the plate somehow.

I've heard of 45, but haven't heard of 90.

[Bodo]

I've heard of 45, but haven't heard of 90.

Debris from impact can move in any direction from normal.

[Tack Driver]

The fragments travel at 90 degrees and more.


I've heard of 45, but haven't heard of 90.

Geezus.

Everybody skipped physics, but you skipped Geometry too?

[Tack Driver]

Shooting steel in the dark, and watching it impact the ground during the day, it looks like the majority leaves the targets at 90 degrees.

[Bodo]

Shooting steel in the dark, and watching it impact the ground during the day, it looks like the majority leaves the targets at 90 degrees.

On a flat plate, yes. On a curved plate, it can move greater than 90 degrees.

[Tack Driver]

On a flat plate, yes. On a curved plate, it can move greater than 90 degrees.

Sure, yeah, I can see that.

[Jafar]

Do you guys wanna reinvent the wheel a little bit more and be a tad more greater than thou with your opinions? It's armor plate. If you catch a ricochet to the grape after being shot in the chest than chances are it's just your time to die. If you're that worried about where the round is going, since there's no certainty anti-spalling will still keep that from happening, then you're preparing for something other than combat. Nothing's perfect in combat.

So again, is anyone gonna buy plates or not? Fuck.

[Tack Driver]

Do you guys wanna reinvent the wheel a little bit more and be a tad more greater than thou with your opinions? It's armor plate. If you catch a ricochet to the grape after being shot in the chest than chances are it's just your time to die. If you're that worried about where the round is going, since there's no certainty anti-spalling will still keep that from happening, then you're preparing for something other than combat. Nothing's perfect in combat.

So again, is anyone gonna buy plates or not? Fuck.

Go get some sleep.

Dick.

But it's not a ricochet anybody's worried about, but the splattered fragmentation, and the buildup has proven to stop that.

[Jafar]

Go get some sleep.

Dick.

But it's not a ricochet anybody's worried about, but the splattered fragmentation, and the buildup has proven to stop that.

Figured you would say that. From www.bulletproofme.com

Why we Recommend Ceramic Rifle Plates OVER Steel
Steel is less expensive than Ceramic, and can take abuse that would significantly degrade a Ceramic Rifle Plate – but still we recommend Ceramic because:

1. Ceramic is better protection - stops Level IV armor piercing threats - better than Level III FMJ or lead-core bullet threats.
2. Ceramic is lighter.
3. Ceramic is Triple Curved to hug the body more closely than single-curved Steel.
4. Steel is much more likely to cause bullet splatter, or, more seriously, ricochet, than Ceramic. (Of course, you'd probably rather take a chance on a ricochet hit, than a guaranteed hit to the body!)
Frankly, unless you are on a VERY tight budget, we recommend Ceramic over Steel to minimize the risk from bullet splatter or ricochet. Even if you put the Extra-Thick Line-X Coating (http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Steel.html#Thick-Line-X), or a Spall Cover (http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Steel.html#Spall-Cover) on Steel to reduce bullet splatter, you still have not solved the ricochet problem.

[Jafar]

The greatest consideration is get something over your vitals and leave the rest to fate or divinity.

[Tack Driver]

Figured you would say that. From www.bulletproofme.com (http://www.bulletproofme.com)

Why we Recommend Ceramic Rifle Plates OVER Steel
Steel is less expensive than Ceramic, and can take abuse that would significantly degrade a Ceramic Rifle Plate – but still we recommend Ceramic because:
1. Ceramic is better protection - stops Level IV armor piercing threats - better than Level III FMJ or lead-core bullet threats.
2. Ceramic is lighter.
3. Ceramic is Triple Curved to hug the body more closely than single-curved Steel.
4. Steel is much more likely to cause bullet splatter, or, more seriously, ricochet, than Ceramic. (Of course, you'd probably rather take a chance on a ricochet hit, than a guaranteed hit to the body!)

Frankly, unless you are on a VERY tight budget, we recommend Ceramic over Steel to minimize the risk from bullet splatter or ricochet. Even if you put the Extra-Thick Line-X Coating (http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Steel.html#Thick-Line-X), or a Spall Cover (http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Steel.html#Spall-Cover) on Steel to reduce bullet splatter, you still have not solved the ricochet problem.




Oh, yeah, from the guys selling ceramic. Yeah, that makes sense. You and I both know that ALL of that is bad advice.

There are plenty of tests on build up and it's effects on spalling. It's not rocket science. They shoot a plate and observe the spalling. Build-up = less or none until there are enough hits to compromise it.


The greatest consideration is get something over your vitals and leave the rest to fate or divinity.

I agree plates in the white would be better than nothing, but this argument always makes me chuckle. Why? If you can improve something, why wouldn't you?

[Bodo]

With all the static over getting the right gear and training, why wouldn't you take every precaution that would KEEP you in the fight? If 30 extra shekels will keep a piece of a bullet out of your face or neck, wouldn't you think it was worth it?

[BlueBronco]

Figured you would say that. From www.bulletproofme.com (http://www.bulletproofme.com)

Why we Recommend Ceramic Rifle Plates OVER Steel
Steel is less expensive than Ceramic, and can take abuse that would significantly degrade a Ceramic Rifle Plate – but still we recommend Ceramic because:
1. Ceramic is better protection - stops Level IV armor piercing threats - better than Level III FMJ or lead-core bullet threats.
2. Ceramic is lighter.
3. Ceramic is Triple Curved to hug the body more closely than single-curved Steel.
4. Steel is much more likely to cause bullet splatter, or, more seriously, ricochet, than Ceramic. (Of course, you'd probably rather take a chance on a ricochet hit, than a guaranteed hit to the body!)

Frankly, unless you are on a VERY tight budget, we recommend Ceramic over Steel to minimize the risk from bullet splatter or ricochet. Even if you put the Extra-Thick Line-X Coating (http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Steel.html#Thick-Line-X), or a Spall Cover (http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Steel.html#Spall-Cover) on Steel to reduce bullet splatter, you still have not solved the ricochet problem.




How does ceramic handle getting hit by 7.6x51 or 7.62x39 three times? I would think steel has the advantage there.

[Dale Gribble]

How does ceramic handle getting hit by 7.6x51 or 7.62x39 three times? I would think steel has the advantage there.

Unless it is in the same location, it seems to work by to youboob videos I've seen.

[Jafar]

Therein lies the problem. How many times will someone be shot in the chest before they learn not to do that again. It's a trade off. It's there to save your life but can't be over-fortified to the point that it no longer makes any sense. Combat is not safe. I'm all on board for using the right gear, but this has the proclivity to be a run away train.

[NJC]

Guys, in my opinion Jafar is right on the money.
You wear armor to help in dangerous situations. Unfortunately you cannot wear or buy enough gear to account for all the possibilities. So you have to be as geared up as you feel is prudent but realize that sometimes stuff just happens and there is NOTHING you can do to prevent it.

[Tack Driver]

I've heard it called the golden BB.

[Jafar]

I've heard it called the golden BB.

Is that a brand of 9mm ammo?

[NJC]

no.. pet name for his penis

[BlueBronco]

Unless it is in the same location, it seems to work by to youboob videos I've seen.

Well, the "Big boys" use something called automatic weapons. That shit has at least 3 round bursts. Plus, even with standard shit, there is the old fashionded fucking double tap.

[Dale Gribble]

Well, the "Big boys" use something called automatic weapons. That shit has at least 3 round bursts. Plus, even with standard shit, there is the old fashionded fucking double tap.


Uh huh. And how often with a double tap do you make 1 hole?

[SB]

Dammit, just ordered a set. Not right.

[BlueBronco]

At cqc, it happens more often than you think. Ceramic plates may be fine and good for LEO going up against a punk with a Jennings .25 ACP. However, a shtf scenario against real weapons, I don't think I will have the luxury of changing shit out. I thought this was for a 2nd AR500 buy and not ceramic pottery.

[Jafar]

At cqc, it happens more often than you think. Ceramic plates may be fine and good for LEO going up against a punk with a Jennings .25 ACP. However, a shtf scenario against real weapons, I don't think I will have the luxury of changing shit out. I thought this was for a 2nd AR500 buy and not ceramic pottery.

I totally agree, which is why I'm getting rid of my ceramics. I prefer the risk of getting shot in the face than breaking a plate by being hit, or shit, you should see how many I've seen broken just by dropping a carrier while taking it off or putting it on. I need something that will last the long haul, and I'll take the possible spalling as my trade off.

[Dale Gribble]

However, a shtf scenario against real weapons, I don't think I will have the luxury of changing shit out. I thought this was for a 2nd AR500 buy and not ceramic pottery.

I have AR500 with the line-x build up for just that reason. If the SHTF and I won't be getting more plates I want my protection to be able to last FOREVER. I figure I also won't have time to recoat my plates and the build up does a better job of stopping fragments from subsequent shots.

However if I had money to stock many plates of ceramic I would feel quite safe wearing them, and I would be able to move faster if they were the lightweight ceramic. I don't have that option however.

[BlueBronco]

Dale, can you arrange a group buy one some of these?

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/53a9a88e6bb3f717338173ee-1200-858/swat-7.jpg

[BlueBronco]

Then a again, some of these masks made out of AR500 would be cool!

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1900770!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/philippines-corruption.jpg

[Tack Driver]

Dale, can you arrange a group buy one some of these?

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/53a9a88e6bb3f717338173ee-1200-858/swat-7.jpg

Paintball guns.


Then a again, some of these masks made out of AR500 would be cool!

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1900770!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/philippines-corruption.jpg

In.

[Capt. mike]

Ive got a point blank vest thats rated for 9mm sub gun and lesser threats but I think I can put plates in it, wouldn't the kevlar stop the spalding if it hit a steel plate and how much weight does that add.

[Dale Gribble]

Ive got a point blank vest thats rated for 9mm sub gun and lesser threats but I think I can put plates in it, wouldn't the kevlar stop the spalding if it hit a steel plate and how much weight does that add.

How much weight does the line-x add? I can find out I don't know.

The kevlar should stop the fragments, however the one concern I have is the ones that travel 90 degrees to the plate, does the kevlar wrap over the edge. If so I would think you are golden.

[Capt. mike]

I would think so they have a curve to them so it should catch all the stray pieces even at 90degs, my only concern is your trading speed and mobility for armor that aint gonna help if you catch one in the face. Also that vest I have kinda sandwiches together with velcro and buttons in the front so how would you get a plate in there?

[Dale Gribble]

I would think so they have a curve to them so it should catch all the stray pieces even at 90degs, my only concern is your trading speed and mobility for armor that aint gonna help if you catch one in the face. Also that vest I have kinda sandwiches together with velcro and buttons in the front so how would you get a plate in there?

The curve is in the horizontal only. Imagine the fragments traveling vertically. If you have any kind of a gut, like I do, the plates get a bit of an angle right towards your adams apple area. Lots of really important stuff that is not protected.

[BlueBronco]

How much weight does the line-x add? I can find out I don't know.

The kevlar should stop the fragments, however the one concern I have is the ones that travel 90 degrees to the plate, does the kevlar wrap over the edge. If so I would think you are golden.

Adds a thickness of .5” and adds ¾”lb or 1" and 1.5 lb for front and back plates.

http://www.ar500armor.com/line-x-protective-base-coating.html

[Dale Gribble]

Adds a thickness of .5” and adds ¾”lb or 1" and 1.5 lb for front and back plates.

http://www.ar500armor.com/line-x-protective-base-coating.html

Thanks. I was on my phone and didn't want to look it up from the small screen.. Then forgot about it.