Bowling pin match for rifles

[Johnny]

Fellows I was at Talon this morning an Rumbler was testing out the 223,300 blackout against the pins at 100yrds,the poddle shooter does not have enough balls to knock over the pins shooting fmj,they did not wiggle shot three times.The 300 blackout knocked the crap out of it.Rumbler will be filling ya'll in after he has completely finished.The pin took three solid hits from the 23 but did not turnover!

[Rumbler]

It is true. I had to "head shoot" the pin at 100 yards with the poodle shooter (5.56 NATO 55gr FMJ) to get it to fall over. And that is all it did; fall over.


Good luck head shooting a bowling pin at 100 yards from an unsupported standing position - I used a table and a rest to make the shot.


Working on a plan "B" right now though. So you guys shooting those girly guns won't have to get smacked upside the head by reality.;)

[12bhunting]

I think center mass with 180gr 30-06 should work pretty good.

[Rumbler]

I agree. How ever during the group discussion this testing was dictated and at least tentatively the caliber limits were set at "30 caliber SUBsonic".


The 230gr Berger hybrids at about 1050FPS out of the .300 blackout kicked the snot out of the pin. That is a definite winner for bowling pins.

But at least until the light comes on over their heads waaay more folks shoot the centerfire .22. :( And don't get me wrong; I have one of those also and no real plans to part with it. I need to be able to pickup and use battlefield ammo.

-AND-

I proved that with finite precision shooting; the 5.56 is capable of getting the job done. Eventually.


So I'm just reporting results. In fact; I intentionally left both pins at the pro shop so folks can look at them and make their own judgement without me breathing down their neck.


Oh, and both the pins were "new". They are not the "two pounds heavier because of all the bullets in their belly" pins we plan to use for the actual match.

[JMW4570]

Some of us were asking that some testing be done to verify the agreements we made at the last match. Thanks to those who did the testing. Given the results of the testing, I'd suggest this needs some more discussion based on new information available. If people aren't going to be knock them off with a reasonable effort using a standard load, its not going to have much appeal. Jim

[YankeeFingergasm]

Well said Jim.

[Rumbler]

I concur completely.


So you know what I am thinking, right?

Whacking a bunch of used pins off at the stripes to create "pin heads", set them out a ways, and shoot them with rimfire 22's.

. . I think it may have been you (Jim) that suggested that originally. We have a bunch of identical iron sighted 22LR bolt guns . . . . . . . anyway, I am logistics. You guys are the brains - figger out what you'ns want to do and I'll do what I can to make it happen.

[TargetShooting]

If y'all want to do .308, I'll be game too.

[Rumbler]

We have a rimfire .22 that will fit you David.

[FLT]

We have a rimfire .22 that will fit you David.

No Shit . Mike you actually have a rifle with a side ways trigger guard ? ;)

[thedishdoc]

Rim fire works for me. I shoot it a lot since it is cheap.

[Cattle/Horses]

Mike, We used to shoot rifle poker. Used a deck of cards. Different cards set at different distances. The one to reach 21 with like 4 shots won. 22 or higher and you were dq'd Progressive till one man was left standing.

Something like that. I'm sure GOOGLE can find the rules.

[simmoag]

What about a heavier 5.56 bullet? Do you think 69 or 77gr would work better than 55gr?

[JMW4570]

I concur completely.


So you know what I am thinking, right?

Whacking a bunch of used pins off at the stripes to create "pin heads", set them out a ways, and shoot them with rimfire 22's.


sounds like a plan.

[Rumbler]

No Shit . Mike you actually have a rifle with a side ways trigger guard ? ;)

No. But thanks to the generosity of a shareholder, we do have a "Cricket". :banana:

[Rumbler]

What about a heavier 5.56 bullet? Do you think 69 or 77gr would work better than 55gr?

Frankly, I am puzzled by the result I got. I did not expect the pin to fall over, but I DID expect pass through. That didn't happen except on the "head shot" and the bullet appears to still be right below the pin's skin opposite the "entry wound".

So . . . where did the energy go? I've read the energy numbers on the 55gr NATO cartridge a thousand times; it should have been carrying enough energy that if the bullet did stop inside the 'belly' of the pin, the dagum pin should have at least fallen over.

So . . to be perfectly honest, I have no idea if a heavier bullet - that is still very light - would be significantly different. My instinct tells me a heavier hunting type bullet should knock the snot out of the thing . . but at this point I can't bet on it. I wish I was smarter, I'd really like to know how the result I got is even possible . . . .

Again, anyone who wants to is welcome to come in the pro shop and look at the pin(s). If someone can come up with a theory, I am 110% interested in hearing it.

[AUfish11]

What about trying the plastic toy bowling pins? Should be cheaper than regular pins and easier than trying to cut down pins. Might be worth testing as the bullet might zip right through. Just a thought.

[YankeeFingergasm]

Frankly, I am puzzled by the result I got. I did not expect the pin to fall over, but I DID expect pass through. That didn't happen except on the "head shot" and the bullet appears to still be right below the pin's skin opposite the "entry wound".

So . . . where did the energy go? I've read the energy numbers on the 55gr NATO cartridge a thousand times; it should have been carrying enough energy that if the bullet did stop inside the 'belly' of the pin, the dagum pin should have at least fallen over.

So . . to be perfectly honest, I have no idea if a heavier bullet - that is still very light - would be significantly different. My instinct tells me a heavier hunting type bullet should knock the snot out of the thing . . but at this point I can't bet on it. I wish I was smarter, I'd really like to know how the result I got is even possible . . . .

Again, anyone who wants to is welcome to come in the pro shop and look at the pin(s). If someone can come up with a theory, I am 110% interested in hearing it.

Are you CERTAIN you hit it? ;)

[Rumbler]

Somehow shooting plastic bowling pins with a poodle shooter seems weirdly ironic to me. Pretty darned funny too! :roflmao:


Anyway, we are shooting donated pins so they don't cost anything. Cutting them off . . . . for a guy who has a knack for destroying stuff as I do . . is pure pleasure.


Besides, we could always have a "grown ups only" night where the minimum caliber is .30. :chinscratch:

[Rumbler]

Are you CERTAIN you hit it? ;)


Only after I went down there after three shots and inspected the pin. Closely. I readily admit that I thought I had missed despite having just brought my zero to 100 well enough to put three rounds ON THE X immediately prior to engaging it.

[YankeeFingergasm]

I wouldn't mind seeing the tops evaporate to a .30 + caliber cartridge.

[TargetShooting]

Mike leave a couple Pin for me I'll shoot .308 at them tomorrow or on Tuesday

[Cattle/Horses]

Mike, get you some empty 16 or 20 oz. soda bottles and fill them up with water then put the cap back on and try them. Have TS there, he'll like watching that test..

[Cattle/Horses]

I have some .30 X.22 sabots that you can load if you want to play with them?

[JMW4570]

Besides, we could always have a "grown ups only" night where the minimum caliber is .30. :chinscratch:[/QUOTE]


SWEET! 45-70! Its Hammer Time!

[0utlaw]

Been wonderin what that 7.62x54R would be good for :cooler:

[Jmoorewar]

I like the .22 pin head idea.that would be fun.even having shot a lot of guns now .22 is still the most fun to me.brings back memories.

[Jmoorewar]

Yay,my 1000th post!Am I cool now?

[FLT]

Yay,my 1000th post!Am I cool now?

You've always been cool but now it's official .

[0utlaw]

Yay,my 1000th post!Am I cool now?
yes, but you were cool before so.......

[Rumbler]

I have some .30 X.22 sabots that you can load if you want to play with them?


Someone donated a small pile of corroded 30-06 ammunition with those projectiles on them to JD just the other day.

As soon as I saw them I thought . . . . . 6000FPS? maybe I can do that !! JD does have a .300 win mag, and plenty of once fired brass.:satansmokin:

[Dale Gribble]

I wonder if a non-FMJ 55gr would do better, like a soft point. Would it would expand and put more energy into the pin more quickly than a penetrating round?

If you want to try, I have some 55g SP bullets I would give you to try.

[JMW4570]

SUGGESTION: Ok, here is a suggestion. Why don't you have the centerfire pistol match (like Talon has been doing) at 7pm like usual. After the regular match you have a "Fun" match and require a 22 Rimfire PISTOL match using the tops of the pins at the same distance and course of fire. That way you continue the momentum developed with the weekly bowling pin shoot but you add in a new twist. TWO GUNS, TWICE THE FUN. The rifle stuff is going to take some more time to develop and you are going lose the momentum of the pistol match. Maybe once a month you could do something different. Jim

[crawdaddy34]

Two words.

Grenade Match.

[Frady]

Frankly, I am puzzled by the result I got. I did not expect the pin to fall over, but I DID expect pass through. That didn't happen except on the "head shot" and the bullet appears to still be right below the pin's skin opposite the "entry wound".

So . . . where did the energy go? I've read the energy numbers on the 55gr NATO cartridge a thousand times; it should have been carrying enough energy that if the bullet did stop inside the 'belly' of the pin, the dagum pin should have at least fallen over.

So . . to be perfectly honest, I have no idea if a heavier bullet - that is still very light - would be significantly different. My instinct tells me a heavier hunting type bullet should knock the snot out of the thing . . but at this point I can't bet on it. I wish I was smarter, I'd really like to know how the result I got is even possible . . . .

Again, anyone who wants to is welcome to come in the pro shop and look at the pin(s). If someone can come up with a theory, I am 110% interested in hearing it.

The bowling pin probably isn't absorbing all the energy. I would hypothesize that most of the energy is being deflected because it's a round surface and a rounded(ish) bullet. You would need to hit it dead on to transfer the energy.

I'd be interested to see some 556 tracer rounds shot at the same distance to see just how much they deflect.

[polebarn]

Actually a lot of energy is dissipated by the plastics in the exterior.

[Tack Driver]

Two words.

Grenade Match.

Second.

[Johnny]

Damn crawdog why grenades,you are not going to show for it either.Come on out an bring a pistol.I like the idea of 22 rimfire pistols!!!!!

[crawdaddy34]

Damn crawdog why grenades,you are not going to show for it either.Come on out an bring a pistol.I like the idea of 22 rimfire pistols!!!!!


I'll get out there one day. Thursday afternoons suck for me. But I'll make one sonner or later...





why grenades


Why not?

They go boom.

I like boom.

[Johnny]

yeah, I do too.If you can ever get out there you will have fun!

[Rumbler]

I consulted with a legitimate ballistics expert regarding this 5.56 issue.

Hey said they should be banned. For the sake of the children.

Seriously - that is what he said. Is it any wonder why I like that guy so much ?!? :roflmao:



Anyway, my reason for writing this is to ask "J" a serious question.


"If the bullet doesn't stabilize until ~125 yards, and it MUST BE oriented in a specific way to perform to expectation, just why the fuck are our beloved door kickers using that shit to clear rooms out in the sandbox?"



That is just plain old blatant insanity. And it is FUCKING MURDER by the decision makers every time one of those soldiers gets killed because they are being forced to use that piece of shit for that job.


Seriously.

P.S. Please pardon my language, but I am pretty damned protective of our door kickers.

[JMW4570]

Looks like somebody didn't get their bran muffin for breakfast this morning...


clip...
That is just plain old blatant insanity. And it is FUCKING MURDER by the decision makers every time one of those soldiers gets killed because they are being forced to use that piece of shit for that job.

Seriously.

P.S. Please pardon my language, but I am pretty damned protective of our door kickers.

[Rumbler]

You are right.


But I still powerfully dislike our G.I. Joes getting screwed by some testical free beaurocrat.

[crawdaddy34]

I been trying to tell ya'll...

Grenades.

Room clearing in the 'stan, bowling pins, icarry.

Whatever…..


They work.

[Johnny]

This exactly why I despise the damn poodle shooters.Remember I told you what happened to my friends in NAM,sorry piece of shit that they stuck us with 50+ yrs ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[substratum]

Someone donated a small pile of corroded 30-06 ammunition with those projectiles on them to JD just the other day.

As soon as I saw them I thought . . . . . 6000FPS? maybe I can do that !! JD does have a .300 win mag, and plenty of once fired brass.:satansmokin:

I recall that Remington used to sell "Accelerator" ammo, which was a nearly-4000 fps .30-06 round with a .22 bullet in sabot, and I read somewhere that the reason it was discontinued was that it did not come near to the "varmint accuracy" that people expected of it. In essence, there was no advantage to a high velocity .22 bullet in a round that did not perform nearly as well as their match grade 168 grain round.

[BlueBronco]

You are right.


But I still powerfully dislike our G.I. Joes getting screwed by some testical free beaurocrat.

They should be using the Patton method to clear buildings . . . a tank or C4! Its allowed under the Hague Accords.

[thedishdoc]

I consulted with a legitimate ballistics expert regarding this 5.56 issue.

Hey said they should be banned. For the sake of the children.

Seriously - that is what he said. Is it any wonder why I like that guy so much ?!? :roflmao:



Anyway, my reason for writing this is to ask "J" a serious question.


"If the bullet doesn't stabilize until ~125 yards, and it MUST BE oriented in a specific way to perform to expectation, just why the fuck are our beloved door kickers using that shit to clear rooms out in the sandbox?"



That is just plain old blatant insanity. And it is FUCKING MURDER by the decision makers every time one of those soldiers gets killed because they are being forced to use that piece of shit for that job.


Seriously.

P.S. Please pardon my language, but I am pretty damned protective of our door kickers.
Doesn't a tumbling,key holing FMJ bullet do more hydrostatic shock than a hole straight thru the target? I thought that was part of the design of the Ak74 and the smaller bullets.

[thedishdoc]

Second.
Said the guy who doesn't come and the guy who shows up late and doesn't shoot. :banana:

[thedishdoc]

Damn crawdog why grenades,you are not going to show for it either.Come on out an bring a pistol.I like the idea of 22 rimfire pistols!!!!!
I would love to do .22 pistols. I can shoot my M&P 22 pretty well because I shoot it a lot. I like to see how I can do against you guys. I enjoyed the .45 shooting also.

[thedishdoc]

What about a 50-75 yard golf ball match? It's easy to build PVC stands and pretty cheap.
We shoot shotgun shells at 50 yards over here sometimes. It's pretty fun and it's cheap.

[crawdaddy34]

Said the guy who doesn't come and the guy who shows up late and doesn't shoot. :banana:


I will one day.

My problem is my wife and I ride to work together, and we have two kids at home. So I have to wait for a Thursday when she is not working (sick) before I can go. That or they move it to weekends. (I know, I know...)

[thedishdoc]

I will one day.

My problem is my wife and I ride to work together, and we have two kids at home. So I have to wait for a Thursday when she is not working (sick) before I can go. That or they move it to weekends. (I know, I know...)
Bummer. I work in Tally but live 60 miles away so I am there during the week but weekends mean another 120 miles over and back.

[Cattle/Horses]

I recall that Remington used to sell "Accelerator" ammo, which was a nearly-4000 fps .30-06 round with a .22 bullet in sabot, and I read somewhere that the reason it was discontinued was that it did not come near to the "varmint accuracy" that people expected of it. In essence, there was no advantage to a high velocity .22 bullet in a round that did not perform nearly as well as their match grade 168 grain round.

The 224 will not have rifling marks, and those that are on the sabot are all deformed and indistinguishable.

IE reintroduced Mexican Gray Wolfs in the western states

Does take a special die to seat the round.

[Johnny]

Yes it would be fun to shoot after the match with 22 pistols at the tops of the pins!

[Johnny]

Hey slackass,whats going on .Every post I get this message at the bottom of the page saying ccgf is not responding on left has a block that says recover web page? wtf?

[Rumbler]

YOUR internet connection is timing out, Johnny.

Honest. It ain't the forum.

[thedishdoc]

Or a browser problem. You running Explorer, Chrome or Firefox?

[rr53]

I will one day.

My problem is my wife and I ride to work together, and we have two kids at home. So I have to wait for a Thursday when she is not working (sick) before I can go. That or they move it to weekends. (I know, I know...)


2594

[thedishdoc]

Sounds more like having to bow down to the one car god.

[Tack Driver]

Said the guy who doesn't come and the guy who shows up late and doesn't shoot. :banana:

Bitch, y'all start throwing grenades, I promise to participate.

[FLT]

Bitch, y'all start throwing grenades, I promise to participate.

Well if you're going to use 9mm. I guess you better bring some grenades if you want to knock any pins off the table! Just saying---- and shit. ;)

[Johnny]

Some people need to use grenades to even hit a pin as you well know Flt,maybe these youngs will finally drag out.We could let these youngsters use a shotgun,that want use grenades!

[JMW4570]

That's it Johnny, Play the Age card on them pups!


Some people need to use grenades to even hit a pin as you well know Flt,maybe these youngs will finally drag out.We could let these
youngsters use a shotgun,that want use grenades!

[Tack Driver]

We should get together out there and build a .22lr shooting gallery.

[crawdaddy34]

Out there???

At Talon? Don't they have one?

[Downrange]

We should get together out there and build a .22lr shooting gallery.
Yupp then the whole familia could participate.

[Tack Driver]

Out there???

At Talon? Don't they have one?

If they do, I'm unawares.

[Rumbler]

Of course there is. There is an entire bay dedicated to the .22 rimfire. There are spinners galore; chickens, pigs, turkeys, beer bottles, circles, you name it.

:)

In fact, thanks to the generosity of a couple of the members (here and there) there are a couple of FREE .22's and ammo for little people (littler than even you, Tack).

[Downrange]

Of course there is. There is an entire bay dedicated to the .22 rimfire. There are spinners galore; chickens, pigs, turkeys, beer bottles, circles, you name it.

:)

In fact, thanks to the generosity of a couple of the members (here and there) there are a couple of FREE .22's and ammo for little people (littler than even you, Tack).
Everyone worth a shit should rep this. Well done, Rumbler, well done.

[Tack Driver]

Everyone worth a shit should rep this. Well done, Rumbler, well done.

You'll forgive me if I pass.

[Rumbler]

Awww heck Tack don't be a hater. It is not my fault you stopped growing in the fifth grade! :P

[crawdaddy34]

If they do, I'm unawares.


Shocker...














and I don't mean the "two in the pink, one in the stink" that your mom prefers.

[Johnny]

Rumbler are you say that Tack is a pygmy????????

[Rumbler]

Johnny, I was thinking more like "Smurf".;)

[Dale Gribble]

Johnny, I was thinking more like "Smurf".;)

He's short for even a smurf. I guess he's a mini smurf.

[Tack Driver]

Geez.

[Rumbler]

Awww Tack. You know that we luv ya. Regardless of your vertical challenge.

[Johnny]

Rumbler,they used smurfs for tunnel rats in NAM,no glocks back then,they gave the smurfs a flashlight and a 1911 and down the hole they went!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tack Driver]

Rumbler,they used smurfs for tunnel rats in NAM,no glocks back then,they gave the smurfs a flashlight and a 1911 and down the hole they went!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like Forest Gump?

[Johnny]

Forest Gump was to big to be a smurf,he would have gotten stuck in those tunnels,then someone would have had to use C4 to get him out!

[Rumbler]

how about a bowling pin match throwing guns instead of shooting them...

Funny. But bad idea. Trust me on that one. :cooler: