Missouri bullets 45 acp

[marcus6176]

Just seeing if anybody else uses Missouri bullets for reloading 45 acp. What powder, primers, OAK, ETC. Anything would help

[WinterSoldier]

At the risk of being blunt... well... I'll just be blunt and be done...

"Brand" means nothing. Material, weight... and possibly shape... those are the main determinants, and with a caliber such as .45 ACP a plethora of powders are usable. You need to get your details of bullet weight, bullet material, bullet shape (if relevant... meaning mostly "is it JHP?), all in a row like so many little ducks, then select the powder from those listed in a published loading manual and also there get a starting load and OAL for that particular combination, PLUS also noting anything special about primers... but normally for .45 ACP any brand of "regular" as opposed to magnum large pistol primers should do the trick. Most would also say to actually knock off 10% of the "book" starting charge for your first effort. I'm sort of neutral on that in most situations. But my main point, is to get your loading data from published sources not "Joe Schmoe" on the internet. Joe might be dyslexic... or mean... or crazy. :) But before you load a single cartridge, read a good general source about the type of loading you are intending to do... the "rules" of loading vary greatly depending on the general category of cartridges and powders you are working with... and in some special cases on the specific gun you intend to shoot them in. For instance, you can load and fire .45 ACP in a .455 Webley with a shaved cylinder... but if you use standard .45 ACP powder loads you will at best gradually destroy a fine old gun.

Now, if you are experienced at hand loading and I have just insulted you by not knowing that, so be it. I would far rather insult a hundred experienced guys than help one inexperienced one blow his gun up.

[marcus6176]

I take every reply with a grain salt, no insult received. I mainly posted a broad statement, to see what kind load data I can find from people who are using Missouri bullets. The ones I have now are 200 grain RNFT lead. I have already tested out some charges on first batch and they were nothing but squibs in barrel (I only shot one at a time just in case). Tomorrow I am going to test out some of my new charges and oal out of my 5" 1911 and fnp.

I will post the results when I get back. Wish me luck

[Rumbler]

Marcus, no. No Missourri bullets. But they certainly do have a good reputation.


I use another brand of plated bullets out of South Africa; "Frontier" and have done extensive load development for both "full power daylight" and "full power low/no flash".


I've got pictorial evidence I can push a 230gr ball round at 950fps out of a 4.5" barrel and the only "sparks" coming out the end of the barrel are those generated by the friction of the plating against the barrel as it passes through.


It may bear mentioning - as reinforcement if nothing else - that I use two very different powders for daylight and night loads. One calls for 8.4gr and the other 4.6gr. Obviously mixing up the two would be a really really bad thing.


Some would say pushing a plated bullet 230gr bullet 950fps is a really really bad thing. But in my gun (you know they are all different!) there is absolutely no sign or symptom of over pressure. In fact now with the benefit of history I know that expecting 4 or even 6 reloads out of a case is completely reasonable.




In summary, I'll post the load. But know that:


A) Chances are slim it will perform exactly the same for you
B) If you load it as listed it may darned well blow up in your face.


Daylight load:
8.4gr Accurate Arms #5
230gr Frontier TMJRN
Winchester standard large pistol primers
COAL: 1.250


Dark load:
4.6 Hodgdon Clays
230gr Frontier TMJRN
Winchester standard large pistol primers
COAL: 1.250


My suggestion would be . . . that you take advantage of this here offer:


Come do your own load development. I've got access to a bullet trap and chronograph, and several presses and a digital powder scale that has proven over time to be very accurate. Obviously because you are pushing a lighter bullet, *theoretically* you will be able to use a heavier powder charge. But, well, you know, maybe not. 8)

[WinterSoldier]

marcus: Unintentional squib load in a hand gun with typical pistol powder... probably not much chance of detonation (notice... I didn't say no chance... maybe no chance but I won't say that) but not the proper way to go about working up a load either and possibly dangerous if the same loose conceptualization is carried over to high power rifles...

Rumbler: I ran this down conceptually when I was working on the heavy-bullet Makarov load but I'm not sure now whether I posted anything about it then... With a high power rifle, pressure signs on the expended brass certainly tell you if you have gone too far, and possibly the same with a high pressure pistol round (I wasn't focused on that so I'm not saying one way or the other for certain), BUT for "ye olde reliable" lower pressure rounds like the Makarov I was working with or the .45 ACP there is a pretty wide band between what is recommended for the design of the gun and a point at which pressure signs would appear on brass. Yeah... engineers and lawyers look at all the old guns in the caliber and at just plain building in an unknown in detail but known-to-exist margin of safety. The main "danger" as I understand it is in slowly, bit by bit, destroying the gun... not catastrophic dissassembly with great hazard to the shooter and others nearby... but still, that doesn't seem like a really good idea to me. Now... everybody here that was paying attention knows that I'm not utterly and always "by the book". That heavy-bullet Makarov load I worked on was outside of any known parameters except certain knowledge that the Ruskies had done done it somehow with JHP... but I was working on it with a lead bullet. But know this too. My SOLE intention is to perfect the load, make a small supply of rounds with that load, then basically set them aside or a VERY rainy day. I have NO intention of feeding a steady diet of them to any Makarov, and in fact I used a CZ82 for my "test gun" because its published pressure limit is higher than the Makarov's. Your hands, your eyes, your other varios tender bits, and your guns... but I would encourage you to rethink a bit some of the loadings that you've been doing... and mostly why you "really need" them. Maybe I'm a hypocrite. Maybe I wax and wane by the shape of the moon. Maybe I'm befuddled one day and sharp as a tack the next. Or maybe I'm just more right than wrong about this. Just think about it. Can't hurt. Much. ;)

[Rumbler]

Fyodor,


I understand. I've killed two 10mm Colt Delta Elites thinking that because they were 10mm pistols they were suitable for 10mm ammunition. Battered (peened) the slide and the frame both to the point the pistols were not longer serviceable. But I never blew out a case . . . or a barrel.


Not ALL the ammunition I load is "hot to the max". I load *my* ammunition that way after making the conscious decision that it is OK if the handgun wears out. To mitigate this, I do routine maintenance, and preventative maintenance (such as changing recoil springs on a round count schedule as opposed to a performance degradation observation kind of "schedule").


I wasn't going to 'go there' in this thread but the reason why I load *my* ammo the way I do is now relevant enough to this discussion that I believe the concept has value to put voice to.


So bear with me a second please while I lay the groundwork for why I do what I do . . .


* - most all the "defensive" ammunition I have ever encountered for handguns tends to be on the upper end of the powder charge range - it is "hot".


* - with my own eyeballses I have seen shooters pour "target ammo" into targets in "practice" for defensive encounters, then when they do shoot defensive ammo, both their split times (forgive me if you already know this but that is time between shots) and their accuracy degrade markedly. Then there is the distraction factor. If you just put 50000000 rounds that go "pop" down range then send some that go "boom!" it is going to distract you. Even if it is only fractions of a second, you ARE going to react differently than you did during those 50000000 "pop" rounds.


I'm supremely confident that you and most here, understand that those fractions of a second here and there can and do sometimes add up to the difference between life and death in a defense of life situation.


* - I have personally experienced the other side of this as well. You send 500000000 "boom!" rounds down range, switch to "pop" rounds and what happens? One shoots lower split times with (usually) more accuracy.


My working theory is that if I can find a way to train like I hope to fight, if the need arises to fight, the likelihood is increased that I will fight as I trained. We often say it, it is thrown about with reckless abandon sometimes even. But I am an absolute believer that a gun is a tool. When that tool wears out, I won't have a problem throwing it away and buying a new one. My life, and most especially the lives of my loved ones, is worth far more than the cost of any pistol I will employ to get the job done. Including my totally collectible, rare as hens teeth, original Bill Wilson seventy series Colt 1911 (which by the way is worth a LOT more than the car I drive every day and depend on in the event of an emergency).




Maybe I am looking at all this . . . askew. You all know me to well at this point for me to pretend I am not a little . . . . um, , , , idiosyncratic. But I don't think so.


What I do know for sure is that I genuinely welcome anyone to offer feedback that would allow me to better achieve the goals at least implied in the brain dump above. ;D :o :-[ 8)

[wheelman]

i have a bunch of the Missouri IDP #4 XD and i load them for both 45 acp and 45 long colt.

they are 200 grain

i like them

I load the 45 acp with 5.2 grans of titegroup and find this load to be very accurate out of my glock 21 with a 5.2-inch lone wolf barrel

i like the blue lube that is part of the bullet and i do not seem to have any issues with leadding in the barrel

i do make it a point to pass a few jacketed rounds during the session and i try to end with a mag of jacketed as i feel this helps remove some of the lead but honestly i dont know if this helps or not

[WinterSoldier]

"There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result." - Sir Winston Churchill

Your rationale seems perfectly sound to me though rather expensive... but with one proviso. When the SHTF the adrenalyn rush seems to be almost immediate and you might not even be able to tell whether you just shot your hand cannon or someone shot at you. Well, maybe that's an overstatement, but your perception of reality alters so substantially that the familiar isn't even familiar anymore and you are both acting less than fully consciously and catching on to only part of what's actually unfolding around you as well (the so called "tunnel vision" is one aspect of that but it's a lot more complex). Any difference between "my" perspective and the perspective of guys "like you" who seem to me much more dedicated to an idea that one can train to fight through and overcome if prepared well-enough... is... (1) that such things are rather "statistical" but there is only one of you and being 33% better or 12% dead or whatever... don't necessesarily round out in your favor, (2) I believe a lot more in my ability to avoid trouble than in my ability to prevail against it if it gets right in my face, and (3) I seem to believe more in "luck" and it working either way, not necessarily "my" way at all! Did I just say that I was going to "depend" on luck? HELL NO! I'm just saying that if luck leads one straight into a stacked deck the outcome ain't likely to be favorable... One can try, and training, rehearsed actions and skill can help... but the prospects of success are generally rather poor, regardless.

[marcus6176]

Looks like I got the best results from clays

[Rumbler]

8) 8) 8) 8)