Decapping military 5.56 and 7.72 Brass. Consumptive?

[Rumbler]

I'm hoping someone with some first hand experience can chime in on this and give me the low down . . .

5.56. The huge vast majority of that - thank goodness - is LC brass. No tiny flash holes to deal with, and none of those evil berdan cases. :P


Does anyone else around here break a lot of decapping pins pushing primers out?


Really, I've checked case alignment, flash hole size . . and for two little holes in the bottom of the case. I can go through two pins on a hundred cases. In fairness to the dies (Lee three die set) I do have the little ferule on the stem of the decapping pin so tight it will either push the primer out or break the tip off the pin.


Yes, I consider that a tip about what is going on. Some of those primers are either glued in or crimped like a . . . I dunno, something really tight!

7.62. I dunno. So far I've only broken one decapping pin. But at that point I had done a couple of hundred cases, so I'm not going to complain. But I can tell you that compared to commercial .308 - any commercial .308 - brass those military cases take a whole lot more 'umph' to process.


So . . . I know about the crimp removal after the primer is gone. I need to know if any of you folks have any tips for pushing that dagum primer out that's been crimped in there without the press eating decapping pins like candy. :-*

[WinterSoldier]

I don't do those but I do remember reading about heat gun the base of the brass to about 300 or so then try to pop the primer. Not to sure about this memory thing. It may have been heat then cool.

"Finger Licking Good"... That is to say... I'm not planning to decap any 300 degree brass anytime soon. :-*

[JMW4570]

I use RCBS dies and have broken a few but not at that rate Mike. Not sure what to offer.

[WinterSoldier]

I'm hoping someone with some first hand experience can chime in on this and give me the low down . . .

5.56. The huge vast majority of that - thank goodness - is LC brass. No tiny flash holes to deal with, and none of those evil berdan cases. :P

I don't have... never have had... probably never will have... a 5.56mm firearm and I don't hand load the caliber... but I do have "a few" deprimed cases. LC brass should never be a problem. I seem to recall that PMC is more challenging. But the real "evil-doer"/prime offender is Privi Partisan ("nny"), which has the softest primers in the known universe. They will stretch to more than twice their normal length and come out only at the very tippy-end of the stroke of the press handle (and sometimes only at the end of a second or third stroke), if you haven't broken the tip of the decapping pin before that point.



Does anyone else around here break a lot of decapping pins pushing primers out?

Given that I don't load the caliber I'm quite sure that I break far more decapping pins on 5.56mm than any other "caliber"... so... why do I decap it and especially why do I decap the Privi Partisan cases"? Damn if I know? Lack of good sense, I guess.



Really, I've checked case alignment, flash hole size . . and for two little holes in the bottom of the case. I can go through two pins on a hundred cases. In fairness to the dies (Lee three die set) I do have the little ferule on the stem of the decapping pin so tight it will either push the primer out or break the tip off the pin.

Yes, I consider that a tip about what is going on. Some of those primers are either glued in or crimped like a . . . I dunno, something really tight!

Primers vary from very loose to extremely tight in pockets but it's the military primer pocket crimp and/or lacquer that other than Privi Partisan's soft primers, that seem to be the prime offenders as to making removal difficult.



7.62. I dunno. So far I've only broken one decapping pin. But at that point I had done a couple of hundred cases, so I'm not going to complain. But I can tell you that compared to commercial .308 - any commercial .308 - brass those military cases take a whole lot more 'umph' to process.

Write back after you've broken a few dozen. By then, you may be an "expert" (x-unknown quantity spurt=drip under pressure) like me. ::)



So . . . I know about the crimp removal after the primer is gone. I need to know if any of you folks have any tips for pushing that dagum primer out that's been crimped in there without the press eating decapping pins like candy. :-*



General comments and reccomendations: First... if you decap you SHALL break pins. That is a LAW. Buy a supply of spare pins, and IMHO decapping is a much smoother process if you do it alone as a "standalone" operation... using a Lee universal decapper. Just remember... you still have to resize, so that becomes its own separate "standalone" process as well. One reason for doing this is that universal decappers are cheap (I suggest you actually buy TWO)... and so are the straight pins they use. Combo decapper/resizers' pins vary. They have differeing lengths and some are straight... some have expanders built in... and... it's much easier and less expensive to stock one "universal" pin than many specific ones... plus sometimes the others, being low order-quantity items... are out of stock for long periods. Second... it might help to screw the decapping die into the press so that it rides higher and the decapping pin hits the primer at a lower and better controllable point in the stroke... or at least, this seems to work better for me. Also, using a universal deprimer die allows you to better feel when the pin contacts the primer... so that you have a better chance to feel if you hit a rock-solid Berdan primed case. I also try to stand the cases upright and visually inspect EVERY case with a flashlight to eliminate Berdan primed cases. But... I'll tell you for an absolute fact... you will miss a few even with that "visual inspection" step. But it also helps detect dirt clumps, spider webs... and even spiders, in range pick-up brass. Your caliber of choice has a tendency towards severely dinged case mouths. Really bad ones go in the scrap metal bucket... but it helps to stick the shaft of a broken decapping pin in and gently straighten bent case mouths before running them through the resizer.

One final note... If you think a Lee decapper is inexpensive so you should buy a "better" one. I don't know about other brands, but a RCBS universal decapper is inferior to a Lee universal decapper in many ways; but I can't think of a single way it's better!

[Rumbler]

Snooping around the 'net the consensus does seem to be the Lee Universal Decapper - and several spare pins. It is a pain in the butt to have to break out decapping from resizing, but what the heck. 5.56 is a pain in the butt to reload anyway.


But those little bullets are just so dang CUTE!




. . . and cheap. :-[

[Dale Gribble]

I use the universal decapper (lee).

I decap and then clean my brass.

I have broken 1-decapping pin on military 30-06 brass, but it was when a berdan case got picked up with my lovely brass on the range.

I tighten the ferrule until it just pops the primers. And I have 6 spare pins in stock.

[Rumbler]

Why, I haven't a clue. But that Lee universal decaper seems to be the ticket.


It indeed does push out crimped in primers easy as can be. At least so far. ;D


And I suspect because I ordered spare pins to keep on hand, chances are slim I'll ever break the first one. Luck of the Irish, ya know. :P

[Dale Gribble]

And I suspect because I ordered spare pins to keep on hand, chances are slim I'll ever break the first one. Luck of the Irish, ya know. :P


I used to race cars. The rule was we never need spare parts that were on hand, only what we didn't have. So we started bringing an spare race car, that solved the breakage right away.

Well not exactly, the car still ate transmissions, but something has to be expendable.

[ironhead7544]

Lee has a hammer type decapper and base for .22 and .30 cal. Just use that for the first decap.

[Rumbler]

Lee has a hammer type decapper and base for .22 and .30 cal. Just use that for the first decap.





This is the route I wound up going. The universal die is OK, works fine, but that is just one more die to have to setup and adjust, take out and replace, then setup and adjust.


This 'hammer type' is just so dang easy. Kind of a "thump and forget" thing . . .


though I do want to figure out how to get more space under the anvil so I don't have to dump the primers every six err eight 'thumps'.

[Rail Driver]

though I do want to figure out how to get more space under the anvil so I don't have to dump the primers every six err eight 'thumps'.


Get a block of wood - drill it out to fit the anvil, then drill a smaller hole for the primer to drop through into a trash bin.

[wheelman]

Why not just limit your brass to 223?

[Rumbler]

Why not just limit your brass to 223?



I have never been a fan of .223. So I have way more 5.56 brass than .223.

[seadog]

I visually check every cases flash hole. The evil one's are of course berdan but another guaranteed pin breaker is IK 5.56 brass. It's used by Federal for there tracers. They have a very small flash hole and a lot of bright red primer sealant.

[Rumbler]

I'll be darned. I didn't know that. Thanks!

[seadog]

Well for starters there's the issue of dimensional differences. There are 8. The. .223 is smaller and therefore goes through more expansion in a 556 chamber thereby stressing the 223 brass.

[Airgator0470]

Well for starters there's the issue of dimensional differences. There are 8. The. .223 is smaller and therefore goes through more expansion in a 556 chamber thereby stressing the 223 brass.

Differences in BRASS or differences in CHAMBER?

I'm aware the chambers and load pressures are different, and other than MIL 5.56 cases being thicker with less internal volume in some cases... I'm unaware of external dimensional differences... can you clarify?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56_x_45_mm_NATO

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=406

[seadog]

Let me get to a computer in the next day or so and I will post the spreadsheets

[Airgator0470]

Let me get to a computer in the next day or so and I will post the spreadsheets

So.... you ARE saying there is a difference in measurements of the BRASS?

OK... because if you have something other than what's cited above, I'd like to see it AND the source.

[seadog]

That's exactly what I'm saying . If you give me a moment I'll see if rumbler can post it

[Airgator0470]

That's exactly what I'm saying . If you give me a moment I'll see if rumbler can post it

At one time I had a drawing that indicated a .002 (or something really small) only in the neck length IIRC. Can't find it...

[seadog]

I'll bite.
Base diameter 223. 0.3760 . 5.56 0.3780
Shoulder diameter. 223..3553 . 5.56 0.3560
Neck-2/Case Mouth. .223 0.2540 5.56 0.2550
Freebore diameter. 223 0.2245 5.56 0.2270
Base-to-case mouth. .223 1.7720 5.56 1.7750
Base to shoulder. .223 1.2340. 5.56. 1.2380
Neck length. .223 0.2200. 5.56. 0.2180
Freebore length. .223. 0.0250. 5.56. 0.0500

The throat angle is also off by 0.6 degrees

[seadog]

I'll bite.
Base diameter 223. 0.3760 . 5.56 0.3780
Shoulder diameter. 223..3553 . 5.56 0.3560
Neck-2/Case Mouth. .223 0.2540 5.56 0.2550
Freebore diameter. 223 0.2245 5.56 0.2270
Base-to-case mouth. .223 1.7720 5.56 1.7750
Base to shoulder. .223 1.2340. 5.56. 1.2380
Neck length. .223 0.2200. 5.56. 0.2180
Freebore length. .223. 0.0250. 5.56. 0.0500

The throat angle is also off by 0.6 degrees

[Rumbler]

Here you go. I think whoever snapped that first photo may have a nervous disorder as bad as mine. :p

1841

1842

[Airgator0470]

I'll bite.
Base diameter 223. 0.3760 . 5.56 0.3780
Shoulder diameter. 223..3553 . 5.56 0.3560
Neck-2/Case Mouth. .223 0.2540 5.56 0.2550
Freebore diameter. 223 0.2245 5.56 0.2270
Base-to-case mouth. .223 1.7720 5.56 1.7750
Base to shoulder. .223 1.2340. 5.56. 1.2380
Neck length. .223 0.2200. 5.56. 0.2180
Freebore length. .223. 0.0250. 5.56. 0.0500

The throat angle is also off by 0.6 degrees

Uhh.... excuse me Sir... those are CHAMBER specs, I posted those and gave them to Rumbler some time back.

BRASS... the question was whether or not there was a difference in BRASS not the CHAMBER...lol.

Other than minimal case wall thickness... .223 Rem cases and 5.56 NATO cases are identical, only the CHAMBERS and load pressures are different.

You had me thinking I was about to learn something...

[Airgator0470]

Here you go. I think whoever snapped that first photo may have a nervous disorder as bad as mine. :p

1841

1842

I guess he did not read post #19... I clearly asked if he thought there was a difference in the brass measurements... I knew for a fact there was not... but I figured maybe he had something.

This is what I posted some time back... remember?

[seadog]

I had my head wrapped around chambers. Apologies for the confusion.

[Airgator0470]

I had my head wrapped around chambers. Apologies for the confusion.

LOL... you had my attention that's for sure.