Need advice

[30plusretlaw]

I decided to start reloading for my 308 win. I know I need a press, but what else is needed? to clean the casings? weight the powder? etc. I want to buy stuff little by little, so I don't have to drop 1K at one time. What should I buy first? I want a quality equipment that I can go to other calibers later on. Like they say, buy once cry once. Another thing that confused me is, I see the Dillon presses been sold on Ebay, but , the same press by caliber. Any advice will be appreciated.

[12bhunting]

If you already have your dies, a good digital scale, and a nice reliable caliper your good to go. I use a Lee single stage and hand load one at a time. I use a sharpie to find my lands and go from there depending on my bullet selection. I did order a seater for my 7mag and 270 that seats from the ogive. But it will only work with Sierra game kings. Once you figure out what bullet you want to run I would suggest doing the same.

[12bhunting]

If you buy a Lee single stage $130, a die set $30, scale $45 & a caliper $40 you can get set up and running for under $250. I wash my casings in dawn dishwashing liquid and dry them in the oven. Add in a pound of powder $34 and a box of bullets $30 + - and your set. All reload date is available free .99 on the internet.

[Cattle/Horses]

Go by DSH and ask them to explain reloading to you. They have a reloading room, several presses and can give you a good overview of the process.

http://www.dshfirearms.com/

[Dale Gribble]

I decided to start reloading for my 308 win. I know I need a press, but what else is needed? to clean the casings? weight the powder? etc. I want to buy stuff little by little, so I don't have to drop 1K at one time. What should I buy first? I want a quality equipment that I can go to other calibers later on. Like they say, buy once cry once. Another thing that confused me is, I see the Dillon presses been sold on Ebay, but , the same press by caliber. Any advice will be appreciated.
f

Find some one missing at least on finger to teach you. Experience is a hell of an educator.

[12bhunting]

Just for my own curiosity, as far as precision hand loading for a rifle, can anyone see anything to gain by buying an expensive press instead of using a simple single stage press? I understand for large quantities for pistol it would be to time consuming, but is there any advantage over a Lee buy spending more?

[mapper]

You want the press to have the leverage to whip the brass, not have the brass whip the press.
Additionally you want the press to have a large enough opening so you don't have to do gymnastics when seating long bullets.

I have a old lyman all american that cams over, but I haven't found the need to use it over the lee classic cast turret I do most of my loading on.

But that said, if I run across a good deal on a rock chucker, id be tempted to pick it up.

[Cattle/Horses]

Just for my own curiosity, as far as precision hand loading for a rifle, can anyone see anything to gain by buying an expensive press instead of using a simple single stage press? I understand for large quantities for pistol it would be to time consuming, but is there any advantage over a Lee buy spending more?

Nope, I have a single stage RCBS for hunting rounds and weigh every charge of powder before I pour it into the brass.

[Johnny]

Been using an old rcbs rocker chucker for over 40 yrs no wear as good as the day I bought it.No telling how many thousands of rounds has been loaded with it.

[30plusretlaw]

If you already have your dies, a good digital scale, and a nice reliable caliper your good to go. I use a Lee single stage and hand load one at a time. I use a sharpie to find my lands and go from there depending on my bullet selection. I did order a seater for my 7mag and 270 that seats from the ogive. But it will only work with Sierra game kings. Once you figure out what bullet you want to run I would suggest doing the same.
I got nothing!!!!Lol. starting from scratch.

[12bhunting]

I got nothing!!!!Lol. starting from scratch.

I misread your op in my first post. Reloading is very simple and no where near as complicated as I thought it would be. The hardest part is finding the lands, but once you figure it out it's easy as well. And with all the data online there is no need to buy books. If all else fails pm mapper, he is a human encyclopedia of reloading and reloading accessories.

[30plusretlaw]

Go by DSH and ask them to explain reloading to you. They have a reloading room, several presses and can give you a good overview of the process.

http://www.dshfirearms.com/
I would but I'm, 5-6 from Tally.

[Cattle/Horses]

+1 on 12B's recommendation on Mapper.

[Airgator0470]

Just remember, high powered bottle neck rifle brass will need trimming. Failure to do so can result in a self-correcting error. A good quality press and die set will help reduce bullet run out, which kills accuracy.

[Jas8340]

Personally I'm a fan of RCBS products and I've been using their single stage press for years. I'm currently using my single stage press to reload 4 pistol and 5 rifle calibers, including 308 WIN. Using a single stage press gives you a "quality over quantity" approach since you're doing each stage of reloading one at a time. I'm not a high volume reloader anyways. With that said, here's what I recommend:

RCBS Kit with just about everything you need to get started for $280: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit

RCBS Powder Stand for $18.50: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/125792/rcbs-advanced-powder-measure-stand

If you spend an additional $2.00+ on RCBS gear, you'll be qualified for a $75 rebate: http://media.midwayusa.com/cms/rebate/2016_1/buy_green_mir_coupon_jan1_dec31_c.pdf

Now you just need to get a trimmer, tumbler, calipers, and what ever set of dies/shellholder you want. Having more than one reloading manual is good to cross reference data. If you decide to want those previously mentioned items made by RCBS, wait until January to purchase them because the rebate should reset for the new year.

Then you'll want to start looking at brass, powder, bullets, and primers. Hopefully you've been saving your once fired 308 brass. Will you be reloading your 308 WIN for a semi-auto or bolt action?

[30plusretlaw]

Personally I'm a fan of RCBS products and I've been using their single stage press for years. I'm currently using my single stage press to reload 4 pistol and 5 rifle calibers, including 308 WIN. Using a single stage press gives you a "quality over quantity" approach since you're doing each stage of reloading one at a time. I'm not a high volume reloader anyways. With that said, here's what I recommend:

RCBS Kit with just about everything you need to get started for $280: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit

RCBS Powder Stand for $18.50: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/125792/rcbs-advanced-powder-measure-stand

If you spend an additional $2.00+ on RCBS gear, you'll be qualified for a $75 rebate: http://media.midwayusa.com/cms/rebate/2016_1/buy_green_mir_coupon_jan1_dec31_c.pdf

Now you just need to get a trimmer, tumbler, calipers, and what ever set of dies/shellholder you want. Having more than one reloading manual is good to cross reference data. If you decide to want those previously mentioned items made by RCBS, wait until January to purchase them because the rebate should reset for the new year.

Then you'll want to start looking at brass, powder, bullets, and primers. Hopefully you've been saving your once fired 308 brass. Will you be reloading your 308 WIN for a semi-auto or bolt action?
That's exactly what I did. I went the RCBS route. I talk to the wife Monday night and told her that if Hillary won, It will be really hard to find ammo and that I needed the ability to load my own. Her answer...." you are a big boy and work hard, get what ever you need" My eyes got as big as basketballs. Since I have the amazon card and I get a 5% discount on amazon purchases and the $75 off. I got this kit and the 308 dies and shell holder. I already have around 500 brass casings and have a round 300-350 rounds of 308. I rarely sell anything I buy, so the lifetime warranty and the Costumer service is what push me to RCBS. I look at dillon but those progressive presses scare me a little. Maybe when I'm experience. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V3IW74A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V3IW74A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

[30plusretlaw]

I'll be spending a lot of time researching on how to reload. I also have a friend at work that's been reloading for a while and said he would help me if I needed help. I think I will be ok. I will be loading 308 only,for now, since is what I'm enjoying shooting. My pistol ranges and the boring kind. Nothing like Airgators place.

[mapper]

This is what I do.

Separate out the brass that was fired in your bolt action, and the brass that was fired in your gas gun. Keep them separate for now.

If you have multiple rifles in the same caliber, you'll need to determine which one has the tightest chamber when setting your dies up.

Measure from the shoulder to the base of the case, on several of each of the casings fired from each rifle.
The shortest dimension from shoulder datum to case head is what you are looking for.

Typicially I set my dies up to bump the shoulder back 0.003 in a gas gun, and 0.002 in a bolt gun.

But what you are looking for here is 1 die setting that will work on everything You have in that caliber.

Full length sizing, returns brass back to minimum saami specs,
Brass life may not be the best, as the chamber may be between minimum and max specs.

I don't like working my brass more than necessary, so that's why I do the above.
I let the rifles chamber tell me where to set the die.


If you have any military brass, don't be suprised if you have to remove primer crimps to reload them.
They can either be swedged or cut out. And there are numerous ways to do them.

[30plusretlaw]

Thanks for the info mapper, all the casings I have as of now, were fired form the AR10, Only 18 from the BA. The ones I used to zero the rifle. So, if I primarily going to reload for the BA, for accuracy, set up everything for that rifle? I put the 18 cases in the same box with the ones from the semi, now I know to keep them separated. Thanks!!

[mapper]

So you are not planning on loading for the ar 10 as well As the bolt?

Sure you can only load for 1 rifle, folks have been doing that for ever, neck sizing, or partial full length size.as well as tailoring the seating depth.

for the ar 10/15 a metal mag should allow you a longer seating length than a plastic mag as the mag body is thinner.


If you were single loading and not limited by mag length, those would be seperated out, not necessarily by sizing die setup, but mainly by seating depth.
I want my sized brass to be able to chamber in anything I put it in that I have.

[30plusretlaw]

I think, I'm confused. I'm thinking, that If I reload for the BA, I can use the same rounds on the AR. So it will depend on the seating of the bullet? I have to read a lot. I really enjoy the BA, so it will be primarily for that rifle but when the range is at a 100 yards, I might bring the AR also. The BSO range use the same lanes for 100, 200, 300 yards. They divided by weekend. The 300 yards, looking at the schedule, is only 4 times a year :-( . BTW Just learn something today. By looking at the firing pin strike, I can tell the ones that were fired by the BA vs the ones from the AR, even the manufacturer. The PPU and the Federal primers strikes, look different. Does seating of the bullet, dictate, how much powder I can put on the casing, for more velocity? Last question for today, Where do you guys buy the powder and primers? online or local? I see tons of powders, how do I know which one to buy, same for the primers? Thanks again.

[Cattle/Horses]

30, you bring up lots of questions, I sense you might be feeling a bit overwhelmed. Take a breath, It's all pretty simple, common sense and methodical once you get going.

I know no one that that got into reloading by reading and going it alone. A mentor makes the learning process go pretty smoothly. Get up with your friend and help him reload some, It will all make sense.

[12bhunting]

Unless you are loading them one at a time your magazine plays a big role in your overall cartridge length. Let's forget about AR10. This is just example. Say your tikka is accurate with the bullet .006 off the lands, which puts your total cartridge length at 2.91 But now your overall cartridge length is longer than 2.8", so they will not properly fit in your magazine. But if you seated the bullet another .003 they would the feed properly from your mag. In other words your magazine dictates the length of cartridges that you can run in that particular rifle. Accuracy may be better .006 off the lands, but your magazine may only work if you seated the deeper by reducing total cartridge length by running .009 off the lands.

The amount of powder is also dependant on each particular rifle. Load data tells you for example a starting load of 42 grains, max load of 47 grains. So you start at 42 grains and work up to 47. When you start getting to the top limit you check for pressure signs. I like to load every step in .5 grains to find accuracy. Generally there are 2 nodes that will group tighter than others. Once you find them you can then get more tedious. Hopefully I did not just confuse you. I'm not good at typing shit that makes sense. But honestly it's not difficult at all once you get into it.
I buy powder from dsh. I buy bullets from Kevin's.

[FLT]

All great advice. ^^^^But to start you can just load them to the same over all lenth as a factory round. I've done that many times with a new rifle . If I like the rifle I'll then adjust over all lenth and the powder charge. In a hunting rifle I never exceed magazine lenth and can usually get them to shoot under a inch.

[30plusretlaw]

OOOHHHH yes, I'm kind of confused, but, It will sink in. LOL. Anyway, I probably won't be reloading until the new year. Got my equipment yesterday, Still need the Tumbler, media separator, powder, primes and bullets. I took over my son room, that is living in Tally, and made it my man cave. Put my safe, workbench, all my shooting and diving equipment. I was taking the bed down this weekend, to put a bench there for reloading, But he is coming with the GF for Thanksgiving. and are going to use the room. Now is also the busy season, and will be working 6 days a week.

[30plusretlaw]

One question, I want to buy the bullets. I'm not competing or going to try to beat anyone on accuracy. I just want to have fun. I was looking yesterday at reloading sites, and the amount of bullets, is , overwhelming. I just want an all around good round to start, have fun with it, until I know what I'm doing, and then later on, buy more dedicated bullets and try to push the envelope. What brand and kind of bullet should I be looking for. I know Hunting bullets and match specific bullets are out of the question.

[FLT]

I like Sierra bullets, back when I started loading they were the best that money could buy. Now days they are all good you can't go wrong with hornady,Speer, Sierra , Barnes or any other of the major brands. I like 150/165 grain bullets in the 308 either in the hunting or target type. Powder valley is the place I get most of my reloading supplies from.

[JMW4570]

If you want to try some various weight 30 cal Sierra's PM me. I'll put a doggy bag together for you. Jim

[30plusretlaw]

Thanks for the offer JMW, I'm all the way down in WPB, if not I would take that offer. I currently have 200 rounds of 168 and 40 rounds of 175 grain Federal gold match.
12B I was looking in the Nosler reference book and saw that about the powder. So now I understand....I think, that after finding the grains my rifle like, I can loaded with different grains of powder and find out what combination work best. I see is a long but fun process. Also saw the primers make a difference. I saw they recommend Federal 210 and 210M, but also reading around, read, that many people like the WLR primers over the federal. I was trying to find the primers online and they are sold out everywhere. I think I found only one store that had CCI primers. So I guess I will go ahead and wait till they come available and buy the tumbler and media separator while I wait till the primers become available. I'm going to a gun show tomorrow and I will check there also.

[FLT]

I can spare a couple of hundred primers if you can't find any by the time you are ready to start loading. I'll be at the house in Verobeach either just before or just after thanksgiving . That's only about 70 miles from you.

[mapper]

https://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Rumbler
Mapper,
I mostly just use voodoo. :coolguy:

No, seriously, some might call it voodoo, but in reality it is spending the time thinking through what I want to accomplish in a particular load, then a combination of published resources, experience gained by making previous mistakes, and patience in testing.

Patience in testing may be the single most important component behind doing enough research to learn if the powder you think will work, will actually fit the performance criteria you want/need.

I believe it would take an awful lot of words to cover even most of the major concepts, mid level concerns, and finite tuning techniques. Then there is addressing these things and their level of concern related to what type of ammunition you want to produce; hunting, self defense, benchrest accuracy, 'cheap range plinking', etc. Then there is; gas gun, single shot, bolt action variants and their "needs".

Heck it took me several weeks and dozens of rounds JUST to figure out what the best bullet jump was for my Remmy 700. Obviously someone just wanting to create plinking ammo, OR someone wanting match level ammo for their magazine fed gas gun wouldn't have any interest in that process..:p

[JMW4570]

The remmy 210 and 210m are a good choice. If you are going to get primers from FLT i can give him the bullets. See if you can find a pound of Varget at the show. JW

[30plusretlaw]

It sucks to be old and blind. The good and bad news of the gun show trip. first, I forgot to bring my glasses, There were only 2 vendors of reloading supplies. None have bullets, only one had primes. The federal 210M, he wanted $89 for a thousand and $28 for the WLR. The powders were 10 more expensive than online, so... I bought 1 pound of Varget, 1 pound of BLC2 (in The Nosler book, it claims, that the BLC2 is the most accurate powder for 165-168 grain and Varget give you the must velocity.) I also grab 1k of WLR primers. I just went to take the stuff of the bags, put my glasses on, read the Varget info, Read the BLC2 info and when I grab the primers........ They were NOT WLR, they were WLP........ So......FLT and JM, if you guys load that kind of ammo, you guys can have them. I have no use for them, is too late for me to change them. The GS is almost an hour away, and I have things to do. FLT, if you can spare some primers, I would appreciated, JM, I check what I bought to test the AR10 and I have some 150 grain, 165, 168 and 175 grains. If you have different grains than those, I would appreciated if you can spare a few bullets. My AR, like the 168. Thanks again guys, for all the help and knowledge.

[12bhunting]

I think your going to like varget. I ran a batch of 308 using varget this morning through a nib $199 ruger American. I went with 165 SGK, CCI #200 primers and varget. Set them all .005 from the lans. Started at 42 gr and got consistent 3/4" groups at 100 yards. 43 gr opened up to 1". 44 gr 1 1/4". Then ran a couple sets of 45gr which took it back down to 1/2" consistently. If I get a chance I think with a little more time playing with the nodes I can get consistent groups less than 1/2". I was planning on trying 4064, but varget is the winner until hunting season is over and I have more free time. 9582

[mapper]

30,
If you have a way of getting them, I can part with 1K of WLP primers.
I'm not really in need of LP primers, but do load with them. just offering to help.

[30plusretlaw]

30,
If you have a way of getting them, I can part with 1K of WLP primers.
I'm not really in need of LP primers, but do load with them. just offering to help.
If I can get with FLT, I will give him the 1K WLP and you guys can split them any way you guys want. I just don't have use for them and is better if you guys use them, than have them sitting on a shelf unused. I do this shit all the time, go out without my glasses and then when I need them, I don't have them. But you know, how we men are. All I have to do was ask the guy for help and not do the manly thing of not asking for help.

[mapper]

Of course you could get a set of 45 acp dies and use them as well....
:poke:

[30plusretlaw]

Of course you could get a set of 45 acp dies and use them as well....
:poke:
I would have to buy a set of 45 acp dies and a hand gun to shoot them too.

[Cattle/Horses]

You don't have a .45! Saint Rumbler just rolled over.

[mapper]

You are almost there though, you have the primers and shellholder (use the one for 308 )

I used to shy away from calibers I didn't own, untill I realized, its just another set of dies...

[30plusretlaw]

Can I use dies and shell holders from different different companies? like Lee and dillon?

[mapper]

Generally yes, unless the dies in question are for a dillon square deal, as those are proprietary.
I have lee and rcbs shellholders, lee, rcbs, redding, and hornady dies, and use them all.
Everyone has their favorite color.

For rifle dies mine are the light green, the dark green, and the red ones without the shellholder in the set.

For pistol most all of those are the red ones, that come with a shellholder.

[30plusretlaw]

Ok, update time. FLT and JM. I appreciate your willingness to help, immensely. I talked to the guy at work, and he is bringing me 400 primers for rifle and exchanging them for the LPs and buying the rest from me. I'm staying in the 100-300 yards range, so I will stay in the 165-175 grains bullets, to start. Thanks again!!! Now, I was holding on the reloading hobbie, but this elections, push me to do it in a hurry and with out knowledge. I just found out, I made another mistake. I bought a set of dies that is specific to reload ARs rounds (not bad do, cus it will make me buy dies for the bolt action. ;-) ) I found a Redding kit, that comes with a neck sizing only die. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/473959/rcbs-ar-series-small-base-2-die-set-with-taper-crimp-308-winchester


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/640612/redding-deluxe-3-die-set-307-308-winchester

I like the idea of the neck sizing die, because I want to reload for the BA first. If I'm not mistaking, the case will expand to fit the BA chamber? Another question I have is, How do I remove the primer with out the use of a full sizing die? Since thanks to you guys, I know I have to keep my casings separated, this might help with the learning curve. This election is draining my wallet fast. Found this also, interesting. How you guys lube the cases and what do you use to do it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MztaUZuHGXA

Another question. Do I remove the primer prior to cleaning or after cleaning?

[Johnny]

Remove the primer first,your neck sizing die should have the decapping pin on the neck sizing spindle.I use sizing wax sparingly.have used others but I prefer the wax.

[Johnny]

I have full length reloading dies but I prefer neck sizing for all of my bolt actions ,forgot I do not own an auto except in turkey guns.

[Dirty Sanchez]

I buy my ammo at walmarts.
This allows a few activities that reloaders don't have:

I am in the woods 25-7 during 3 states deer seasons.
I can spend my free time with my family to make up for the fact that I shoot 9mm.
I have all my eyeballs and fingers, as my mediocrity would lead to squib and over powered rounds, likely in that order.
God bless

[0utlaw]

A.D.D prevents me from reloading.......... A man's got to know his limitations.

[30plusretlaw]

So...... what is the best reloading handbook out there? I heard, that I should have more than one, to cross reference. The kit I bought, came with the Nosler hand book. Which other is or are a must have?

[Cattle/Horses]

30 years ago when I started there were only a few companies that made bullets for people who reloaded. Nosler, Speer, Hornady, etc, and you bought the manual for the specific bullet you would be loading. I think that still holds true, although there are bullets now that are almost, if not identical (Grains, shape, BC) made by MANY different companies. Such as the .224 55gr FMJ.


When I was starting out, the Nosler Partition had just been developed. It was to revolutionize the hunting round, especially on game like mule deer, elk and such . Lots of bullets of the day would not hold together when bone was hit, many retained less than 50% of their original weight - penetration was a problem. The partition was designed to actually have a brass partition midways with lead loaded from both end. In theory and practice the Partition would only mushroom to the partition, retaining 75% of it's initial weight. I'm sure there's just as good or better bullets out there today, but I still reload Partitions for hunting. Want to shoot hogs in the head or neck with your AR15, try the 60gr Partition.

9809

[30plusretlaw]

30 years ago when I started there were only a few companies that made bullets for people who reloaded. Nosler, Speer, Hornady, etc, and you bought the manual for the specific bullet you would be loading. I think that still holds true, although there are bullets now that are almost, if not identical (Grains, shape, BC) made by MANY different companies. Such as the .224 55gr FMJ.


When I was starting out, the Nosler Partition had just been developed. It was to revolutionize the hunting round, especially on game like mule deer, elk and such . Lots of bullets of the day would not hold together when bone was hit, many retained less than 50% of their original weight - penetration was a problem. The partition was designed to actually have a brass partition midways with lead loaded from both end. In theory and practice the Partition would only mushroom to the partition, retaining 75% of it's initial weight. I'm sure there's just as good or better bullets out there today, but I still reload Partitions for hunting. Want to shoot hogs in the head or neck with your AR15, try the 60gr Partition.

9809
That look interesting. I can't wait to start reloading. There's so much to learn. Thanks for the advice.

[FLT]

Lyman is by far the best for a new reloader . They go more in to depth about the mechanics of reloading than any of the others.

[BlueBronco]

Lyman is by far the best for a new reloader . They go more in to depth about the mechanics of reloading than any of the others.

The 50th Edition Lyman just came out this year. It is by far better than the Hornady 10th Ed. However, a Hornady 8th, 9th or 10th would be a good second book. I have some articles from old Guns and Ammo issues for the 220 Swift by Sitton, 300 Weatherby and .30-30 Win by Bob Forker that I have for those rounds. I back stopped them with the Lyman and Hornady manuals before I went to work.

[30plusretlaw]

Been working on the reloading table and I'm 99% done. I want to add shelves next to the pegboard to put the powder, bullets and dies. Should be able to finish this week. 10169 10170 1017110172 10173 10174 1017510176 1017710178

[SB]

Be sure and weight the dog crap out of it.
The heavier the better.

[30plusretlaw]

Be sure and weight the dog crap out of it.
The heavier the better.
Will do. That's why I reinforce the lower shelf, I'm putting some heavy stuff down there, so I can crank that handle with authority :D

[Tack Driver]

Those pre-fab legs on that table are trick.

[30plusretlaw]

Those pre-fab legs on that table are trick.

Is was worried about how sturdy they were, but so far so good. I been moving the table around to finished and the legs are rock solid. But if they fail, I have lots of pallets in my yard that I can use to put legs on the table. I just had those sitting around and decided to used.

[30plusretlaw]

This sucks. I already deprimed all my brass, order a tumbler and they send me a 230 volts international model. Never seen that electric plug before. The bench is done, just need to clean the brass and start playing with loads. The wife told me to stop spending money, I told her....Is all Mappers fault. 1027110272102731027410275

[Evil_McNasty]

That's a Euro standard plug. Just order a simple converter plug or cord. No biggie

[mapper]

so she isn't quite on board with the
"I'm saving money by reloading"
Or the "I'm recycling and doing my part for the environment"
Or the "but dear, I haven't been to a gun shop/show looking at rifles, just seeing what they had as far as reloading supplies"
Or the "it adds another dimension to shooting, being able to tune the ammo to the gun"

If she shoots pistol, say 38 or 9,
Load enough up for a all she can shoot range trip, take some 22 lr, as well.
As a passing comment mention the cost is the same for all 3, but 22 is harder to find than just going to the press.

Just try'in to be helpful. :poke:

[0utlaw]

So your're saying that works at your house or that's just the BS you've tried to sling so far :dunno:

[Cattle/Horses]

No Outlaw, I think it more of a "misery loves company" thing on Mapper's part.

[mapper]

Yes.
That worked a BS toss. (Just make sure she runs out of 22 first)
As far as the BS slinging
That came from the missus saying, "it seems like you are spending a lot of time on that reloading thing, and I'm not seeing you as much.
So....
"Ya know babe, if I got that electric trimmer, or chargemaster, or case prep center, or dillon press, or xxxx thing, that would free up a lot of time I spend out there. You know you told me all these years to work smarter, not harder. Rifle is more involved than pistol,so it is taking longer"
That one is still working somewhat. ​ :goodjob:

It still requires "all she can shoot at range day amounts" to be semi-believable.

[30plusretlaw]

Good shit mapper. She had come down a lot since I got her this, now she don't bother me much https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UM46WQU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UM46WQU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

[30plusretlaw]

That's a Euro standard plug. Just order a simple converter plug or cord. No biggie

I just send it back today. They paid for the return. I order a different one from amazon. More money, but the reviews are all 5 starts and it come with the media and cleaner. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ILI3S9S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[mapper]

Now she can understand the work smarter not harder philosophy first hand.. :goodjob:

[12bhunting]

I just tell mine to make me a sandwich, on Jewish rye, I have shit to do. That will usually buy me another 1/2 hour of no interruptions.

[SB]

It's called "The silent treatment," and they think it's punishment.

[0utlaw]

It's called "The silent treatment," and they think it's punishment.
:hahaha:

[Cattle/Horses]

I just tell mine to make me a sandwich, on Jewish rye, I have shit to do. That will usually buy me another 1/2 hour of no interruptions.

I wish I could find that nervous rambling you posted a year or so ago when you forgot y'alls anniversary. It had a little different tone than the above quoted post.

[12bhunting]

I wish I could find that nervous rambling you posted a year or so ago when you forgot y'alls anniversary. It had a little different tone than the above quoted post.

A man must know his limitations.

[30plusretlaw]

I put it to my wife this way....... Your car payment, $360 a month, $4320 a year, Mine $0, Your nails, $20 a month $240 a year, Mine $0, your hair cuts, $75 every 2 months $450 a year, Mine $0, I cut my own hair, Make up, average of $20 a month(we all know is a lot more than that) $240, Mine, $0., there is no make up in this world, that would make me look pretty. So $0. Your lunches, Average $5 a day for 48 weeks(leaving vacation time out) $1200, Mine $0, I pack my own lunch. Her total every year.....$6,450...Mine $0, and I told her, " and this is with out counting underwear and bras, Cus I don't use bras, and I don't wear underwear" followed with " you work 2080 hours a year, I work 2860 hours a year", I finish with "Baby, I'm just trying to keep up with you, and I can't" And you know how it goes, the roll of the eyes, the confused look, and the angry face.... followed with "But you still spend to much money" LOL. She don't complain any more

[0utlaw]

I just tell the SHTW if I can't enjoy the fruits of my labor I'm stayin home...She's usually much more reasonable after that.

[mapper]

I actually sold 2 presses I had, shocking as that sounds.
That frees up some room on the bench for the stuff that took its place.:banana:

[30plusretlaw]

Finally got the Wet Tumbler and wet/dry media separator. I love the result of the wet tumbler, with just 3 hours of tumbling(was told, that I only need a 90 min tumble, or 2 hours tumble, if brass is really dirty). Also love the idea, of the media lasting forever( if I don't loosed). Primer pockets are clean also. After reading about the drying complain, I will be working on a drying station, made out from a 5 gallon paint bucket and lid, spaghetti strainer and an old hair blower. I used a car drying chamois and the blower and the brass dried really quick. 10333103341033510336

[30plusretlaw]

Cheap drying station for wet tumbling brass 103631036410365103661036710368

[Dale Gribble]

I dry my brass in the oven usually. Set it on 170, put the brass on a pizza tray and let it relax.

[30plusretlaw]

My first reloads of 308 win. Now I need the range to open for 100 yards to test. 10676

[WinterSoldier]

Just for whatever it's worth... I'm pretty much appalled that the term "manual" didn't come up (so far as I saw) till Post # 48, and 30plusretlaw had to bring it up himself. I ain't been 'round lately, or that wouldn't have happened. In his case, his plans seem fairly simple and to the point, and yet I just really don't feel comfortable about "helping" anyone learn to hand load with out telling them that "THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS GET A MANUAL. THE SECOND THING YOU DO IS READ THE MANUAL... NOT JUST THE PART ABOUT THE PARTICULAR CARTRIDGE YOU WANT TO LOAD... BUT ALSO THE GENERAL EXPLANATION PART. THEN YOU READ THE GENERAL EXPLANATION PART AGAIN (AND AGAIN, UNTIL YOU ARE PRETTY SURE YOU UNDERSTAND IT). THEN YOU CAN START WORKING OUT A SPECIFIC LOAD FOR A SPECIFIC CARTRIDGE, SPECIFIC BULLET, AND SPECIFIC POWDER.

Several of you mentioned the Lyman Manual, but actually there are TWO GENERAL metallic cartridge smokeless powder manuals (Lyman's Reloading Handbook 50th Edition and Richard Lee's updated second printing of his Modern Reloading Second Edition) that I know of, that have good general introductory sections, and especially for REDUCED LOADS of rifle cartridges using cast lead bullets. Lee skins that cat a whole different way. Actually Lyman has several manuals, a Cast Bullet Handbook now on its 4th edition, a Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual, 2d Edition, a Shotshell Reloading Handbook 5th Edition, and an AR Reloading Handbook, that I know of. If one happens to be into shotshell reloading Ballistic Products has a large manual that I have a copy of but have not read, plus some smaller, specialized, manuals. The general precautionary note is that those tested loads, published in a proofread book with a big company's name behind it... those are safe to use if you understand them. Loads posted on the internet by Joe Dyslexic, perhaps after two six-packs and a 50 tokes on a bong... not so much. And making your own "mathematical adjustments" on a load... Un Unh. It don't work that way... Don't do that!

If you want to stick to products of one company, several companies have manuals that reference only their own products and especially for powders there is also some online load data from the powder company. But Lyman and Lee in general list multiple companies' products. When you get to the point of trying to load something different without having to buy another powder, though, it helps to have Lyman, Lee, and possibly others. But, in general, the more guns you load for, the more powders you are likely to end up "needing", and only a few of them work in both hand guns and rifles, or shotguns.

Since I load smokeless and/or black powder cartridges for almost everything under the sun, I've come to appreciate how versatile black powder is, although most of the rules for smokeless and black powder are very different and there is considerable danger if you don't know that.

And for "we few, we happy few" who actually got this far, this isn't so much for 30plusretlaw as for whatever silent souls who may just be lurking out there, and absorbing things. It's nice if they can absorb sort of right-ish things, every once and awhile.

[mattb]

<--- Short attention span.

[12bhunting]

There you go being a dick again. You are appalled at every post in the thread. And you feel it's necessary for you to let lurkers know the right-ish things every once in while.....

I honestly do enjoy your most of your post. But why you feel it's necessary to be a rude arrogant fucking prick is beyond me. While your post are very informative, you always add some condescending bullshit. While I have no fucks to give about what you need to do to make yourself feel better, I wouldn't feel right not sharing with you my opinion. I am not attacking you. I am not angry with you and hold no hard feelings. I do not want you to quit posting. But if you are going to throw little arrogant jabs into your post, expect to be called on it.

[mapper]

There are 2 areas for posts in the reloading section.
Since this IS rumblers house, everyone knows how hard stuff is to find.
The info is there, but just not organized in one thread or post.
So one wanting to reload should take the time to read the posts in both sections.

here is one of them that states the need for a manual early.
https://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com/threads/9003-Need-a-sticky-for-intro-to-reloading

https://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com/threads/7443-Don-t-know-anything-about-reloading

https://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com/threads/2928-load-development-questions

https://forum.capitalcitygunforum.com/threads/7670-Newbie-reloading-questions

Everyone has their favorites as far as equipment brands, and info in this *may* be dated a little, but content is worthwhile to read.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

As far as how to, or what each step of the reload process is,
The abc's of reloading is good.
It does not push one manufacturer over another or have any load data in it.

Modern reloading by richard lee goes over the process as well, but as you would expect features lee products.
The load data in the back is compiled from many sources, and should be cross checked against other sources, a a good practice for any load, from any place.

The lyman book (at least in the 49th or 50 the or whatever I have) has a good explanation of the process, it has load data as well, and is very beneficial when working with cast lead loadings.

The sierra book mainly uses their bullets, no pressure testing that I am aware of, and a good selection of powders used. They list what the test weapon, brass, primer, powder was used.

Hornady mainly uses their bullets.

As far as loads from powder manufacturers, those are pressure tested, at least the data I saw from hodgdon,Imr.

I guess, it would be better presented in steps Like basic concepts of the process
Minimum basic equipment
Diffrences in equipment choices
Intended uses
Load development

But re read the 2nt sentence in this post, again.

30+, let us know how your load development went, when you get out to the range.

[30plusretlaw]

Just to let everyone know, I have 2 manuals. I have the Nosler reloading guide, that came with my kit. Many here suggested to get more than one, and compare the loads on the manuals, before reloading, so I bought the Lyman 50th edition. Another thing that help me A LOT, was private messaging Mapper, and I really appreciate all the help and knowledge he had giving me. I also did my first reloading VERY slow, step by step, double checking everything and I know, I could had done better, but it was my first time. Today, I was able to go test, what I reloaded. Let start by saying, I'm no season shooter. I'm learning the craft of shooting at the same time, I learn to reload. So flyers are abundant. That's is why, instead of 3 rounds per weight, I loaded 5 rounds for every weight. The bullet: Hornady Match 168gr BTHP, Primer: Winchester WLR primers, case: Federal once shot cases, NOT fired form and Varget powder. 100 yards, 2 inch targets. This were the results today. 10788 There is one missing round on the factory load of Federal premium 168 grain GMM . I forgot to dial the scope down from 300y to 100y, and the round was nowhere to be found. 10789 I started with 42 g, since it was the lowest load on both manuals for Varget with 168 bullet. I increased to load by .5 every time. 10790 two flyers here. 10791 I don't think the 2 outside of the target were flyers because the groups started shrinking. 10792 I think 43.5g, is bad shooting from my part. 44g 10793 , 44.5 10794 group getting better. 45g 10795 I like the 45g group. 45.5 10796 group, started oppening again. 46g 10797 still a good group, but I didn't want to go any higher. I know the groups would be better, if I was a better shooter. I liked the grains between 44.5g to 45.5g . I think the 45g group was the best since all 5 rounds were close. The 42g and 42.5 groups, with out the flyers are great also. What do you guys think?

[FLT]

I think you have it figured out.

[Dale Gribble]

The 45 looks best to me. However measure them to be sure.

[mapper]

While vertical dispersion looks good at 45 gr, how did the primers look?
were they flat, or still had a little radius left?
Did they show any signs of cratering where the firing pin struck?
If no ejection issues, or signs of pressure, you could either run with it,
Or you could try and dropping the charge weight about 0.2 gr from 45 gr, as well as increasing it to 45.2 gr.
It may get a little better, or not.
The idea here is to have a little leeway in charge weight from your desired charge.
For temperature and powder lot variations.

Then you may or may not decide to experiment with seating depths and see if that makes a diffrence.
The seating depths if you are using them in a magazine will be the limiting point if you don't want to single feed.

At some point you will get to the "that's good enough for me" point.
You may be there already, but the process is sound that you have gone through.

The rifle will tell you what it likes.
A load that looks good at 100 may be diffrent at 300,
But it is a good place to start.
Thanks for posting your results. :goodjob:
Looks good.

It is a bit of work, but satisfying when you find a load the rifle really likes.

[30plusretlaw]

Mapper, to tell you the truth, I saw no difference between the 42.5g primers and the 46g primers or brass. Once I pass the 43.5g, since I was scare shitless, I was inspecting every case. I think been scared, was the reason, I had so many flyers at the low grain bullets. After the first few, I was more confident. I had no ejection issues either. Maybe was because on this testing rounds, I ran the brass on a sami specs, full length die. I have not touch my fire formed brass yet.

I was thinking, I might do another test, but this time, do .1g increments starting at 44.6g, since I already have a 44.5g results, all the way to 45.4g. My problem is, that I don't have a range that is open everyday with 100y close to home. I love going to the police range, The Policeman running the range, are always funny and fun to talk too. I do have a public range closer, but my experience there, was not a good one. Talking to others, their experiences been the same as mine. I might have to bite the bullet and go there.

On the size of the bullets, I measure my lands at 2.89. The inside of my Accurate mag, measured at 2.98, so I think I'm good there. I will double check, once I start using my fired form cases. I plant to remeasure everything again. I also notice that at the low grains, the group were close, but impacted lower, than I was aiming. the 44.5g to the 45g, were impacting at the aiming level. 46g did the same and higher. So I will stay around the 45g +- loads. Thanks again for all the help and opinions you guys gave me.

10811108121081310814

[mapper]

Primers look good on 46 gr,
I don't think that 0.1 gr powder steps will tell you anything measurable, other than using components.
That's why I suggested a step halfway between what you had.
The node should be bigger than 0.2 gr.
Remember 0.2/46 = 0.4% of case capacity.
If you wanted to see, sure you could do it.
But that's 30 more loaded rounds than a ladder at 44.8 and 45.2

The inside of lands measurement should be from base of case to ogive on bullet where it hits lands.
The magazine dimension is overall length, which is diffrent.

I get these dimensions from a hornady bullet comparator, a hornady oal guage and a modified case, and a caliper.
If you don't have one I'll lend you mine.
Pm me if you need it.

Magazine fed rifles will be limited to the length of the mag, metal mags generally are thinner construction than plastic and give a little more length.

[30plusretlaw]

Primers look good on 46 gr,
I don't think that 0.1 gr powder steps will tell you anything measurable, other than using components.
That's why I suggested a step halfway between what you had.
The node should be bigger than 0.2 gr.
Remember 0.2/46 = 0.4% of case capacity.
If you wanted to see, sure you could do it.
But that's 30 more loaded rounds than a ladder at 44.8 and 45.2

The inside of lands measurement should be from base of case to ogive on bullet where it hits lands.
The magazine dimension is overall length, which is diffrent.

I get these dimensions from a hornady bullet comparator, a hornady oal guage and a modified case, and a caliper.
If you don't have one I'll lend you mine.
Pm me if you need it.

Magazine fed rifles will be limited to the length of the mag, metal mags generally are thinner construction than plastic and give a little more length.

Thanks for the offer. I already bought all that, using your links in another thread. That's why I mention, I was going to remeasure everything, because I think I measure the bullet length incorrectly. I will go .2g at a time. This is fun and entertaining. I was surprised the primers were all good and no signs of pressure on the brass either. So I will stay on the safe side. The longest I can shoot is 300y, so no need to try to push the envelope. My goal is to find a load that is good from 100y to maybe 600 y and stay on the safe zone. I also have 2 more bullets to test also. I have sierra HPBT match bullets and Hornandy Amax black (plastic tip). Since my distance is so close, I'll stay with 168 grs. We were talking yesterday about going to Malabars 600 yards range. If we do, Ill buy some 175 grs.

[Evil_McNasty]

For simplicity's sake, I would load up 20-30 of those 45'ers and stretch it out to 200-300yds next when possible.
Many of those loads look good. You are cleary doing a maticulous job there.

[mapper]

At some point you will get to the "that's good enough for me" point.
You may be there already.
:goodjob:

The rifle will tell you what it likes.
..

Worth repeating.

[30plusretlaw]

For simplicity's sake, I would load up 20-30 of those 45'ers and stretch it out to 200-300yds next when possible.
Many of those loads look good. You are cleary doing a maticulous job there.
This is part of my plan. I'm taking my fireform casings and test the 3 types of bullets I have, at 300 yards. Is hard to test at different distances because, the same police range, is used for all distances, just on different days. I will sit and think what I want to do and where I want to go with this. I have another caliber, I need to do the same thing. I have an RPR, 6.5 creed, I haven't shoot yet. Thanks again for all the advice. I really appreciated.

[30plusretlaw]

The range was open this weekend, so I test some other loads around the first loads I liked 45g and 42.5 g of varget, I did 9 more loads of 5 bullets each. There's one load, that I'm baffle with, the 44.3 load, have 3 shoots going in one hole...... or so I think. The target only show 3 holes but one hole is bigger than the other 2, telling me, that there's the possibility that more than one bullet pass trough that hole. No...I didn't shoot someone else target. The closes target to mine , was around 20 feet away, and my target was the only black target out there, so I can see the bulls-eyes better. I check the other targets on my board and none have more than 5 holes in it. I did notice, that the loads around my initial 2 numbers are good. I was able to hit good groups and since this was my second rodeo, I was not afraid of the rifle blowing up. 11143 11144 11145 11146 11147 11148 11149 11150 11151

[JMW4570]

I like the 42.7. No need to go hotter than you need. Stretch them out at 300 and see what you get.

[12bhunting]

I'd play more with 45gr. Varget. Running a weaker load is like only using half your Dick while fucking.

[12bhunting]

My best loads for my 308 is 42.5 & 45.5 using varget under a 165 gr game king. I found it to be a common occurrence looking at other guys data and it saved me a lot of time. Maybe not as fun as running various ladders....

[mapper]

Load development for target is diffrent for load development for hunting.
A lot is similar, but the nuances that are not is that target shooters are not concerned with terminal ballistics and muzzle energy.
Paper is real easy to kill.
Bullets behave diffrently at 300 or longer than they do at short range.
Now if you were looking for a long range load that would stay supersonic, that is diffrent than a midrange load.
Scopes have elevation dials on them for a reason.
He is a lot closer to malabar gun club than we are, just sayin.
The rifle will tell you what it likes.

[12bhunting]

Load development for target is diffrent for load development for hunting.
A lot is similar, but the nuances that are not is that target shooters are not concerned with terminal ballistics and muzzle energy.
Paper is real easy to kill.
Bullets behave diffrently at 300 or longer than they do at short range.
Now if you were looking for a long range load that would stay supersonic, that is diffrent than a midrange load.
Scopes have elevation dials on them for a reason.
He is a lot closer to malabar gun club than we are, just sayin.
The rifle will tell you what it likes.

Just talking shit man. The 42.5 is my kid load. Will work just as well on paper as it will deer....

[30plusretlaw]

Load development for target is diffrent for load development for hunting.
A lot is similar, but the nuances that are not is that target shooters are not concerned with terminal ballistics and muzzle energy.
Paper is real easy to kill.
Bullets behave diffrently at 300 or longer than they do at short range.
Now if you were looking for a long range load that would stay supersonic, that is diffrent than a midrange load.
Scopes have elevation dials on them for a reason.
He is a lot closer to malabar gun club than we are, just sayin.
The rifle will tell you what it likes.
I do like the 42.4, 42.5 and 42.7 , I will stick to those grains of powder for my 100-300 y shooting. The 45 gr, will be for 600+ yards, when I can go to a range that have that distance. When I get the chance, I will definitely try them at 300 y. Now I can concentrate on the 6.5 creed.